Autofire and other rules Questions

[nclanceman]

Okay, maybe i'm missing something, but why should someone use Autofire instead of using the Burst trick? And in that same vein, what's so great about GAT quality weapons? It doesn't seem that the penalties for those two are worth the reward.

If someone could help shine some light on this, that would tremendously helpful.

[Psion]

Okay, maybe i'm missing something, but why should someone use Autofire instead of using the Burst trick?

Well, looking at the rules again, I'm not sure I ever really understood how it worked. I thought you got one attack roll per volley; I'm not seeing that reading it again. With just one roll, full auto, it doesn't seem very favorable unless you really have a super-high attack bonus.

But then, that's an accurate reflection of history. I didn't look to see if the tables reflect this, but burst fire is a 20th century innovation that came about when studies showed that full auto fire was wasteful, so burst fire started getting designed into modern assault rifles.

And in that same vein, what's so great about GAT quality weapons? It doesn't seem that the penalties for those two are worth the reward.

Gatling weapons are also an older technology that modern gas-chambering actions and the like.

[Krensky]

Okay, maybe i'm missing something, but why should someone use Autofire instead of using the Burst trick? And in that same vein, what's so great about GAT quality weapons? It doesn't seem that the penalties for those two are worth the reward.

If someone could help shine some light on this, that would tremendously helpful.

The autofire trick is worth it when you have the ammunition for four volleys can be reasonably sure of rolling 16 or more higher then the target's AC while suffering a -4 penalty. It's can also be worth it with smaller volleys since the threshold is lower (four instead of five) for the follow on hits.

GAT, ah GAT.  The GAT weapons in the book represent the GAU series of machineguns and autocannon. These are heavy, complex highly advanced weapons with barrels spun via electrical, hydraulic, or pneumatic means and generally using electrically primed ammo belt fed from very large magazines. They can pour out lead like (well, to be honest usually API, but still) like a garden hose. Despite GE's attempts at a 5.56 NATO version and the Predator movie aside, these things are vehicular weapons designed to hit vehicles. The 20mm gatling gun may be INA (-4) but it's intended targets are huge or gargantuan.  And if you do find yourself using a M134 on people, it may eat up ammo and give you a -3 to hit  in addition to the volley penalty, but you score additional hits for every two you beat the target and the target doesn't get a dex bonus to defense.

[TheAuldGrump]

I find it amusing that the Gatling Gun (1862) really does not have the rate of fire to get the GAT  quality. Right idea, right reason, but much, much lower tech. It does however qualify for Autofire.... (To be fair, that was really the only way to fire it - not an easy weapon to aim, definitely 'spray and pray'.)

The Auld Grump, never fired one, but been on hand when one was fired.

[Krensky]

Also, remember that the M134 minigun and it's bigger GAU Gatling cannon cousins generally use Tracer ammo which will help somewhat in offsetting their INA and the autofire penalty.

[Gentry]

I've seen Autofire used to great effect when a Soldier was looking to pour a *ludicrous* amount of lead onto a single target to make sure it was dead dead dead--and it became the only Attack Check Triumph I've ever seen. 

[meadicus]

I managed to use Autofire quite well recently, with a Browning M2hB (Heavy Machine Gun) from a back of a low heavy transport helicopter. It was an NPC who wanted to cheese the party's parked van out of existence, removing their escape route.

Yes the target was large and stationary, but it was also taken from untouched to broken in a single round

But yes in general combat, I always use two burst actions.

[Krensky]

Heh, I'm reminded of one of my favorite lines in Weber and Ringo's March Upcountry

"Okay, Second Squad. I know I can't be up there with you, but I want you to remember that . . . that . . . you're members of The Empress' Own, damn it." There was a cracked sob, and he choked out the next words. "I want you to do me proud. Remember: long, wildly uncontrolled bursts!" - Sgt. Adib Julian

[Falkus]

In a session last week, one of player characters (playing a semi-psychotic Shadow Patriot wetworks operative named Black Widow) took out a special NPC with a five volley burst. Thanks to judicious use of action dice and tracer ammo, she hit with four volleys and took him down in one round.

[nclanceman]

Okay, so I did some re-reading of the rules and figured out that if you brace while autofiring that it becomes more useful than Burst Fire if you don't intend to fire and maneuver if you're firing a single volley. Also, if you fire more than one, it becomes basically a form of ranged Power Attack. Is that about right? I mean, the error range for Autofire is pretty high so there's got to be some sort of benefit, right? If i'm wrong, does anyone have any house rules to make it worthwhile?

Also, in the interests of not making a new thread every time I have a few questions:
How exactly do the Electronics / Repair and Mechanics / Build work? I get that the Complexity, Size, and Caliber factor in, but how and in what order do they factor in to the final cost and time spent? How would one build a Reputation Only / Net Worth object (such as a Supertanker)?

If you wanted to get a Repair check to last somewhere between the 16 minute maximum of the low investment scale and the 1 hour minumum of the Medium Investment scale, how would you do that?

Also, could you mix and match the skills used on a complex task (for example: If a member of the A-Team was fixing up a car and turning it into a tank, could it go Mechanics / Build a couple of times, then Electronics / Modify for a couple components, then Mechanics / Build or Modify for the weapons?)

[MilitiaJim]

A super tanker isn't something you can build during the course of a "normal" mission.  Those take years to built.  Ditto for the other really big ships like aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines.  Even a powerboat would take a few days if you're starting with raw materials.

[nclanceman]

True that, but assuming one had the time and resources to do build a vehicle like that, how would it be ruled?

[TheTSKoala]

Okay, so I did some re-reading of the rules and figured out that if you brace while autofiring that it becomes more useful than Burst Fire if you don't intend to fire and maneuver if you're firing a single volley. Also, if you fire more than one, it becomes basically a form of ranged Power Attack. Is that about right? I mean, the error range for Autofire is pretty high so there's got to be some sort of benefit, right? If i'm wrong, does anyone have any house rules to make it worthwhile?

Also, in the interests of not making a new thread every time I have a few questions:
How exactly do the Electronics / Repair and Mechanics / Build work? I get that the Complexity, Size, and Caliber factor in, but how and in what order do they factor in to the final cost and time spent? How would one build a Reputation Only / Net Worth object (such as a Supertanker)?

If you wanted to get a Repair check to last somewhere between the 16 minute maximum of the low investment scale and the 1 hour minumum of the Medium Investment scale, how would you do that?

Also, could you mix and match the skills used on a complex task (for example: If a member of the A-Team was fixing up a car and turning it into a tank, could it go Mechanics / Build a couple of times, then Electronics / Modify for a couple components, then Mechanics / Build or Modify for the weapons?)

Okay.. I've had some experience with this.  (My Chair Force player loves to tinker with whatever his character gets his hands on... Typical..)  If you're modifying a vehicle, the easiest I've done is... 3 rolls:

1.  Mechanics Build:  Fortify Vehicle Body.  (If they want to give it DR.)  (I also reduce the top speed of a vehicle by 10x the DR installed.)
2.  Electronics Modify:Configure any Electronics going in.
3.  Electronics Build:  Install any Electronics going in.

Weapons fit on HPs, so that's not too hard.  If your vehicle doesn't have arming points, I believe you need to spend a gadget or two to get the weapon on the vehicle.  (I'm away from my book.. by about 3,000 miles so looking up the specifics is a bit hard. heh.)