Your Fantasy Craft Wish List

[samsimilian]

i agree!!! one of things that i dislike the most on the upcomming 4e is that EVERYTHING  is magic magic magic magic magic.

[Black Cheese]

I've always assumed spellcasters to be rare, and that a good 90% of the priesthood are non-casters.

While I guess that's reasonable as there are a great many more commoners in RAW D&D steadings than there are clerics, it doesn't hold true.

The thing about religion in any fantasy game is that religion is absolutely, 100% freakin' real, and saying something like, "I don't believe in the gods," is not a sign of a questioning mind, but the sign of a fool or an ignoramus.

You dedicate your lives to the gods, the gods give you stuff. Them's the rules. I'm not sure how one can justify not giving special powers to those who dedicate their lives to the gods (as opposed to the church's groundskeepers or whatever) in a world in which gods are proveably extant.

[Morgenstern]

Critical difference from my persective is that's demonstrable that humans will believe even in the absence of repeated, tangible proof, so a god doesn't necessarily have to hand over the goodies on a daily basis to stay in business. D&D spell casters are predicated on a daily output of divine mojo. I'm more inclined to say that a village holyman -can- be a conduit for divine spells - but only from time to time and far more at their diety's discretion rather than at the cleric's command. Joe priest might be entirely without spells 99 days out of 100 but able to do something he knows will benefit his faithful 2-3 times a year on the holiest of holy days. If it's that kind of god, he's probably 98% reliable when it comes to the annual crops blessing. He doesn't need to get daily spell slots to be a bonified agent of the divine. He just needs it once in a while to be living proof the gods are watching and they giveth and taketh away per their social codes.

Few and far bettween are the souls with so much credit in their divine mojo account that they can expect daily intercession on their behalf . Adventurer priests, even low level ones, are insanely powerful from that persective, and they'll command a lot of respect and attention for it. But the same is true for a Fantasy Craft soldier character vs. the typical entire squad of the city watch.

I tend to agree that in such a setting, one doesn't really "not believe in the gods." You might not choose to worship them. You might actively defy them. But it's pretty challenging to say "nah, they don't exist." It would have to be a -very- divine magic-light setting to be a credible skeptic. "They aren't priests - they are mages selling you a line of bunk" is possible but not likely to be a sustainable position.

[Black Cheese]

Critical difference from my persective is that's demonstrable that humans will believe even in the absence of repeated, tangible proof, so a god doesn't necessarily have to hand over the goodies on a daily basis to stay in business.

This, however, is double-edged. IF a god provides daily magics to his flock, THEN the flock comes to view this as normal, BUT IF a god does not provide daily magics to his flock, THEN the god will be seen as less powerful and therefore a lesser god and unworthy of worship.

So, yeah, while it's awesome that the village vicar can fix your bruise, if that's all he can do when someone in the neighboring township can increase crop yield by 3,000%, then I assure you the crop-yield dude is gonna garner more followers, and the bruise-healing god will fall into obscurity.

D&D spell casters are predicated on a daily output of divine mojo. I'm more inclined to say that a village holyman -can- be a conduit for divine spells - but only from time to time and far more at their diety's discretion rather than at the cleric's command.

Then, I assume, the PC holy man doesn't exist. PCs have to be predictable, not relatively random.

Joe priest might be entirely without spells 99 days out of 100 but able to do something he knows will benefit his faithful 2-3 times a year on the holiest of holy days. If it's that kind of god, he's probably 98% reliable when it comes to the annual crops blessing. He doesn't need to get daily spell slots to be a bonified agent of the divine. He just needs it once in a while to be living proof the gods are watching and they giveth and taketh away per their social codes.

OMG, no! Who wants to play that character? "I get to cast flame strike A) when my god finds me worthy, and B) when it's necessary; I hope that time's now when we're surrounded by orcs."

Few and far bettween are the souls with so much credit in their divine mojo account that they can expect daily intercession on their behalf . Adventurer priests, even low level ones, are insanely powerful from that persective, and they'll command a lot of respect and attention for it. But the same is true for a Fantasy Craft soldier character vs. the typical entire squad of the city watch.

So the gods are as powerful as the military?

I tend to agree that in such a setting, one doesn't really "not believe in the gods." You might not choose to worship them. You might actively defy them. But it's pretty challenging to say "nah, they don't exist." It would have to be a -very- divine magic-light setting to be a credible skeptic. "They aren't priests - they are mages selling you a line of bunk" is possible but not likely to be a sustainable position.

Good.
_____
Admittedly, I'm just being adversarial here, but priests really should kick ass on a regular basis.

[spinningdice]

Player characters are special, the main story in the world follows them. I don't think Morg is saying that the Holy man of the village that can pull off some stunt on holy days is a PC, he's an NPC & a relatively minor one.

To move the setting, in "Supernatural Modern Day" - you have a girl possessed and need an exocism, do you really think any priest will be able to do anything other than spatter water around and pray? And yet there will be a handful of priests around that really do have the faith & conviction to force the invading spirit from the body.

[Toccata]

D&D spell casters are predicated on a daily output of divine mojo. I'm more inclined to say that a village holyman -can- be a conduit for divine spells - but only from time to time and far more at their diety's discretion rather than at the cleric's command.

Then, I assume, the PC holy man doesn't exist. PCs have to be predictable, not relatively random.

The PC village holyman may be quite rare, but then the village holyman who's profession is to operate the finances of the local temple and bless crops 3 times a year isn't likely to become an adventurer under normal circumstances, either.

Joe priest might be entirely without spells 99 days out of 100 but able to do something he knows will benefit his faithful 2-3 times a year on the holiest of holy days. If it's that kind of god, he's probably 98% reliable when it comes to the annual crops blessing. He doesn't need to get daily spell slots to be a bonified agent of the divine. He just needs it once in a while to be living proof the gods are watching and they giveth and taketh away per their social codes.

OMG, no! Who wants to play that character? "I get to cast flame strike A) when my god finds me worthy, and B) when it's necessary; I hope that time's now when we're surrounded by orcs."

Nobody would play that character. That character would be an npc. Having a level in a caster class is nothing to sneeze at. Even a level 1 Channeler is pretty damn distinctive and noteworthy. He can't throw fireballs, but he can bend energy to his will in at least small amounts pretty much any time he feels like it.
AFAIK, the Priest will be using the same high magic mechanics. I know that was implied at one point and I haven't heard otherwise yet, so...

[Crafty_Alex]

The priest is different. I was on a particular tear about making the priest work for many different gods, and many different relgions equally, even in worlds where magic is not common. I think the final version captures that quite well. If you want a master of magic, the Mage is your guy, flinging fireballs and casting spells from musty tomes. The priest, on the other hand, is a conduit of the gods, whose abilities are shaped by the very nature of his faith. Thus, priests of a god of war and death are very different from those of a god of strength and nature and those following one of secrets and trickery.

Priests get spells, but they are quite limited when compared to the mage. On the other hand, they get other abilities, such as varied class skill lists, free gear from their faith, choice NPC qualities (yes, as a follower of evil you may literally transform into an abberration), "always on" enhancements (priests of air are *shockingly* effective), and other handy-dandy powers which really mean that no 2 priests are the same. I really *really* like the result of this class, and for those of you who are emulating another fantasy setting or creating your own, I think you'll find what we've got uniquely freeing and easy to implement.

[Toccata]

Even better!

One of the things that always irked me about 3.x D&D clerics was how incredibly homogeneous they are.

I need to get back to work on my Eberron conversion material (because a cleric of the Traveller would actually make sense mechanically this way).
I've had a Warforged talent and species feats floating around half-formed in head for a couple weeks now. Augmented (<insert armor type here>) and Burden of the Ages replicates the most prominent mechanical bits pretty well, while keeping the same flavor.

[Golden Dragon]

The priest is different. I was on a particular tear about making the priest work for many different gods, and many different relgions equally, even in worlds where magic is not common. I think the final version captures that quite well. If you want a master of magic, the Mage is your guy, flinging fireballs and casting spells from musty tomes. The priest, on the other hand, is a conduit of the gods, whose abilities are shaped by the very nature of his faith. Thus, priests of a god of war and death are very different from those of a god of strength and nature and those following one of secrets and trickery.
<snip>

I could quote the whole thing but I'll stop here. I love what you guys are trying to do with the priest. If you pull this off, I will publicly swear off D&D. <repeat>Thank you</repeat> 

[Krensky]

On the other hand, I'd also like to see support for near ubiquitous magic without having to necessarily resort to multi-classing. Some way of letting non-caster classes get very limited abilities.

[Crafty_Alex]

On the other hand, I'd also like to see support for near ubiquitous magic without having to necessarily resort to multi-classing. Some way of letting non-caster classes get very limited abilities.

That's a feat

[Krensky]

On the other hand, I'd also like to see support for near ubiquitous magic without having to necessarily resort to multi-classing. Some way of letting non-caster classes get very limited abilities.

That's a feat

Awesomeness.

[Sletchman]

Priests get spells, but they are quite limited when compared to the mage. On the other hand, they get other abilities, such as varied class skill lists, free gear from their faith, choice NPC qualities (yes, as a follower of evil you may literally transform into an abberration), "always on" enhancements (priests of air are *shockingly* effective), and other handy-dandy powers which really mean that no 2 priests are the same. I really *really* like the result of this class, and for those of you who are emulating another fantasy setting or creating your own, I think you'll find what we've got uniquely freeing and easy to implement.

[Story]Quick Factoid - When I've run DnD, gods are not necessarily real.  Divine magic comes more from Faith, then from some god - the priest's complete unshakable will is what causes the effect to happen, not Moradin or whomever on high.  Also when those dieties are actually REAL, its because they are simply epic, extremely powerful outsiders.  I want to continue this style with FantasyCraft - the reason not everyone can use divine magic, is because not everyone has the sheer strength of will to do so. [/story]

What you guys are doing here for divine magic, is utterly perfect for my needs, and all I need do to make it setting specific is remove the comment about conduits of Gods [Alter it to willpower driven, or invested in them by powerful outsiders].  The abilities they get come from the type of priest they are, or outsider they make a pact with [an evil, corrupt, strong willed person with the right NPC quals makes me quivver with anticipation, as my mastermind].

Wish list wise: In the back of 2.0 it has examples of different play styles - I just would LOVE as many more of those as I can get my hands on - and from what I've read about your 8 settings, I'm probably getting this wish.

[Crafty_Pat]

Wish list wise: In the back of 2.0 it has examples of different play styles - I just would LOVE as many more of those as I can get my hands on - and from what I've read about your 8 settings, I'm probably getting this wish.

Yup. A fantasy genre capsule will be included with every setting.

There are, however, only six settings. Just for clarification.

[DaleKaleD]

I have to say, the first thing that came to mind with the discussion of the interaction of priests, atheists and gods, was the Discworld universe.
Where the gods are directly powered by the belief of their followers and are as petty and capricious as the flocks they oversee. Where an atheist had better keep a lightning rod nearby at all times to avoid the frequent lightning strikes that follow him around.
And at the back of their minds, gods live in fear of being relegated back to the status of a "small god"