The Pain Ray....

[TheAuldGrump]

I know that this was brought up previously, but my thread necromancy has failed me... Active Denial - the Pain Ray, able to send searing pain half a mile from a vehicle mounted system..

Apparently 60 Minutes had quite a lengthy bit about the pain ray. Mad science at its finest. It was the project head admitting to giggling after a successful test that convinced me of the mad science....



The Auld Grump

[MKelly]

   It was also on a future weapons episode. Apparently it uses micro waves to heat up the surface tissues supposedly it would not result in injury but in the program a soldier was injured somehow, they never did give the details.

[Bill Whitmore]

  It was also on a future weapons episode. Apparently it uses micro waves to heat up the surface tissues supposedly it would not result in injury but in the program a soldier was injured somehow, they never did give the details.

Probably got hit by the truck when it was backing up.

[OverNinja]

  It was also on a future weapons episode. Apparently it uses micro waves to heat up the surface tissues supposedly it would not result in injury but in the program a soldier was injured somehow, they never did give the details.

Probably got hit by the truck when it was backing up.

Second degree burns. 8 people total have received injuries during the tests, so far.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/04/pain_ray_injure.html

[Morgenstern]

Because, you know, the pain response is kinda closely wired to being harmed... In fact, there's a few million years of evolution involved in our nervous systems screening out false positives so you don't react to something that is not hurting you. Though, how anyone thought microwaving people enought to trigger a pain response wouldn't cause tissue damage is just beyond me. No one designing such a thing could be that ignorant of the physical consequences, so I guess the spin doctors just got a little carried away with their claims. "Non-lethal" my *^%&^$!

I was highly suspicious of this thing when it first showed up in the news. I'm not categorically adverse to the technology - it's a fine weapon. But don't lie to yourself (or others) about what's actually going to happen when you deploy it. You turn that thing on a crowd, they're not going to disperse, they're going to tear you into small pieces and be both morally and legally justified in doing so.

[Mister Andersen]

That was my thought - also that you'd probably task specific groups to take the thing out if it shows up at a demonstration to pacify it.

[OverNinja]

I wonder how durable that emitter dish is.
It's big enough that a guy with basic marksmanship skills can hit it with an AK at 300 meters.

[Morgenstern]

My chief concern is simply that as painful as it appears to be, there's no way it won't be viewed as escalation, and extreme escalation at that. It's great the procurment lead can giggle about having been pulsed for 3 whole seconds. You get someone already aggitated and hit them with that unwillingly and they're gonna go from riled to LETHALY pissed off in those 3 seconds and you can shout "don't worry it's non-lethal!" at the top of your lungs (patting yourself on the back the whole time for how civilized you are for using a weapon described as "being dipped in scalding water"), but the fact remains you've just started a fight that's gonna get somebody killed.

The magic phrase thats going to come into play afterwards is
"Why did you attack and kill that man?"
"Because I was in so much pain I feared for my life."
"The weapon is said to be non-lethal"
"When you are being hosed down by a 100,000 watt microwave oven and can't even see the source of your pain, that's not immediately apparent..."
"Self defense it is. Next case."

[MKelly]

   There are so many "non-lethal" weapons on the drawing boards, from sub sonic, to ultra sonic, to Dazers, to PLasers to Micro waves, ect.. , I wonder how many of them are Quasi Leathal, if not down right deadly if used in the 'right' or 'wrong' way.

[TheAuldGrump]

Police have managed to kill a suspect with a taser - apparently shooting him for an extended time to watch him twitch. Until he stopped twitching.

Police have also commited murder with rubber bullets, at least once on film. This does not mean that I think police sit around thinking of how to commit murder with their authorized weapons, but police are more likely to have 'non-lethal' means of exerting force than militaries. Every armed force has more than their share of armed idiots....

We will likely find out just how effective the Active Denial works once it hits the field. And yes, it will almost certainly be abused. Even the 60 Minutes clip mentions the torture at Abu Ghraib as a reason AD has not yet been fielded - we have already shown the world how far we can be trusted.

Gods I am in a cynical mood tonight....

The Auld Grump, kill them all, God will know his own....

[Slippery_jim_digris]

My chief concern is simply that as painful as it appears to be, there's no way it won't be viewed as escalation, and extreme escalation at that. It's great the procurment lead can giggle about having been pulsed for 3 whole seconds. You get someone already aggitated and hit them with that unwillingly and they're gonna go from riled to LETHALY pissed off in those 3 seconds and you can shout "don't worry it's non-lethal!" at the top of your lungs (patting yourself on the back the whole time for how civilized you are for using a weapon described as "being dipped in scalding water"), but the fact remains you've just started a fight that's gonna get somebody killed.

The magic phrase thats going to come into play afterwards is
"Why did you attack and kill that man?"
"Because I was in so much pain I feared for my life."
"The weapon is said to be non-lethal"
"When you are being hosed down by a 100,000 watt microwave oven and can't even see the source of your pain, that's not immediately apparent..."
"Self defense it is. Next case."

I have to agree here. To my mind ANY use of pain will only discourage those not commited to the 'cause', whatever that is.

I think a better non-lethal discouragment weapon would give great PLEASURE from a distance. I would like to see anyone attacking while experiancing an orgasm 

[Mister Andersen]

I want to know what happened to the teflon spray they were developing as a border defence.

[Agent 333]

I think a better non-lethal discouragment weapon would give great PLEASURE from a distance. I would like to see anyone attacking while experiancing an orgasm 

Fan of Larry Niven are you?

I want a tasp.....

[TheAuldGrump]

Don't laugh, the military has come up with stranger ideas than that...

I will admit to becoming annoyed with the list when it was mocking pykrete - the stuff is far more practical than it sounds. (Not that that is hard....)

The Auld Grump, one of the other classes in the summer program that I was with made a boat out of the stuff.

[Forcegypsy]

There is no rec mechanism here (as it should be), but if there was you would get one for the Niven reference.

If you inflict enough pain on a body, such that said body reacts as if it were in mortal peril, you are committing torture. I don't care how 'non-lethal' you think your weapon is. Next, how about the mad-scientists work on a device that triggers the drowning reflex at range. Military Industrial Complex ftw, says I.