[D&D] A 4th ed. Playtester gives opinion

[Forcegypsy]

I think the popularity of this will have much to do with each individual's relationship to D&D. I've never been a fan of the Cosmology or basic tropes of core D&D. My favourite settings have been Planescape (never played), Darksun (total fun), Eberron (only setting I've really supported with my dollar), and Midnight (D&D but not WotC). I'll pick up the first 2 corebooks out if interest and to raid ideas as it looks like they've done some innovative things. 

I have no problem with them looking to MMORPG's for inspiration as long as they take what works for a tabletop game. I don't buy WotC splats and never have, so it's likely I'll only buy two books total and this will in no way affect my purchase of Crafty goodness.

[spinningdice]

In all honesty WoW (& it's ilk) have drawn nearly everything from RPG/Wargames anyway.
Feats are effectively requiring you get 1 ability and work your way up (and I'm pretty sure D&D3 doesn't have first dibs on this either), aggro? I remember taunt abilities under 1e/2e proficencies, and it's always been played that they guy standing up front in shining armour waving a 6ft sword around will be the one the monsters attack (dependant on other factors as well - obviously).

And to those who think that it should all be about fluff I remember little to no fluff in most 1e material, it basically went here's the races, classes and rules - go play! There was obviously some form of background to it, but we weren't enlightened to any of it until we picked up a campaign setting...

[ahzad]

While i like what i see being done w/ 4e in terms of the cosmology and 'world setting'. I think something like that was needed for the setting in the core books. I will admit part of me is sad to see the loss of the great wheel, and a more traditional world setting, but more of me is excited about the new direction of those things. I like that they are keeping the 'legendary' locales like the ToEE, Erelhei-Cinlu, and places. I like that they've finally elevated Asmodeus to deity status. I picked up Worlds and Monsters when it came in my last Alliance order and I found I really liked the things in there. I can say I don't care for the direction of the game in terms of mechanics and this will be where D&D and I part company after almost 30 years.

I've said this before, but the Crafty team has put together the RPG that I've been waiting on all my gaming life. There's very little about the system that I don't like and when Fantasy Craft, and the other toolkit settings come out it will become the only flavor of RPG that I will play. I may use other settings, like Freeport, Shadowrun, ect, but the mechanics of those games will be Crafty.

Anyway that's my two cents, and I'm off to drink the Crafty kool-aid some more 

[Alphastream]

In all honesty WoW (& it's ilk) have drawn nearly everything from RPG/Wargames anyway.

Yes, but. It is one thing to be leading and having video games look at your rules set and take what you did and work hard to make their game like that.

When RPGs take from video games...

The real shake-up as I see it is the concept of the skill/power bar on the screen combined with the (as WotC expressed at Gencon) desire to have all classes have capabilities.

The potential awesomeness is having a lot to do with your character. Can your warrior really have tons of cool ways to fight? When you look at MMORPGS, this is something they do well. Every class has the same # of powers, and you choose them based on the role you want to play (tank, melee dmg, ranged, tactical, etc.).

The potential suxor is that you can lose the meat of what is D&D. The Saga Star Wars rules are big on flexibility, but not at all like the D&D I like. Maybe I would get used to it, maybe not. I don't really want to see saving throws become DCs. I don't want equal progression in skills. I don't want Talent/Feat at every level. I don't want wizards to lose their edge. I don't want my warrior to feel like a skillbar - I want the warrior to feel like a classic D&D warrior out of fantasy.  But, I also see how it can all work. I put some trust in WotC to make it work, because I feel they made fairly big changes with 3E that were very good in retrospect.

[Forcegypsy]

And another weighs in...this time a writer who just happens to playtest...

A writer/playtester perspective

It does so by streamlining the rules -- by giving you cleaner, more relevant information for the situations when you actually need information. My first thought when I read the ruels was "Hmm, somebody at WOTC got a hold of The Paradox of Choice ." There are multiple levels of choice in playing the game and building the characters, but now there only mechanics for those choices for when they are mechanically relevant.

Don't think "simple." Think "clean."

I think the reason there's so much buzz around 4E combat is because that's where the most massive fun-change has come in, and so it naturally dominates discussion and perception. By the time my NDA playtest group got through our first session, we'd (unintentionally) fought three massive combats in one four hour session, many multiple opponents each time. When we finished we all kind of sat back, glassy-eyed, and went "wow." Except for the rogue. He was punching the air and cackling "More stabby! MORE STABBY!"

Because 3E combat had gotten so ... er .. gunky, combat's the first thing you notice when playing 4E. It's hard not to talk about it. A bit like if you bought a new car and got it up to 250 mph. The fact that it has a great interior, amazing safety features and a kick-butt stereo never really comes up in your first conversations about the car.

I'm getting the feeling D&D has come up with some elegant solutions to certain issues with previous iterations of the game. Beyond all the fluff, it's things like the previously mentioned shift, that lead me to believe that they've gotten much smarter about certain things. If D&D has some really creative solutions and design bits, I don't mind saying that I'll be more than happy to yoink the ones that can work with my game of choice.

[Maldroth]

I come back to what I said earlier. I don't care what happens to anything else as long as the game itself is fun and easier to run again I don't mind them dropping the bits of fluff I liked.

I'm a writer I can always write them back in, or do my own stuff, which most DMs do anyway.

I mean look at how many people are running Spycraft their way? As long as its fun to run who cares how they do it.

[iconoplast]

One thing I really like is the move from saving throws to saves-as-defense.  It's not very innovative, it's probably the least mechanically interesting of the changes, but I think it makes a huge amount of sense.

It's also super easy to convert (Save + 10 = Defense, DC - 10=Attack), so it will see playtest under non-4E conditions very soon.

[Argonnite]

I drank the Kool-Aid and I really liked it.

I can't wait for more.