Possible cyborg talent

[whiterabbit]

As part of the setting I'm working on, I'm making full conversion 'borgs (basically, a human brain inside a robot body) a talent, as well as a master (or prestige, I haven't decided yet) class. Anyway, I did some number crunching and this is what I came up with, and want your opinions. I put the "Rule of 7" numbers (the "cost" for each ability) in parenthesis at the end of each entry.

STANDARD CYBERNETIC PROSTHESIS
·   +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
·   You gain the acquired construct subtype.  This means that you are immune to injected and contact poisons as well as diseases that don’t affect the remaining organs, non-lethal damage, Strength damage, Dexterity Damage, Constitution damage, attacks requiring a fortitude save unless it also affects objects, and the drained, exhausted, fatigued, and sickened conditions.
·   You automatically gain the Unarmed proficiency.
·   You gain DR 2/-.
·   You gain a new Wealth statistic (Cybernetics) with a starting value of 1. This bonus increases by a further +1 at career level 5, 10, 15 & 20.
·   You gain Damage resistance (Cold), Damage resistance (Fire), and Damage resistance (Electricity) 5.
·   Psionicly inert: You may never take levels in any psionic class, nor may you benefit from any psionic feat.
·   You gain the Banned checks NPC quality. You may not make Acrobatics/Jump checks, Athletics/Climb checks, or Athletics/Swim checks.
·   You are now susceptible to EMP attacks as well.
·   You have a reduced sense of touch, and so all skill checks that involve manual dexterity, such as Electronics, Mechanics, Medicine, Security, and Sleight of Hand have 2 added to their error range.
·   Reviled: You are seen as something less than human, and barely above machines. The disposition of any character that does not share your talent and is aware of your Origin is reduced by 1 grade.
·   You cannot heal damage done to you body like normal. Instead, you must be tended to by a doctor who specializes in cybernetic medicine.

[tenebrae]

I'd say the -.5 per -2 seems balanced enough when you're applying it to skills, but when you're only applying it to a specific check (Athletics/Swim) it's far too generous. At most, I'd make it -2 points for the -10 penalty, although -1.5 or -1 seems more likely.

[whiterabbit]

I thought it might be a bit high too, but wanted to err on the side of caution. Easily changed, though.

[Foghorn]

Just glancing over it I noticed these things.

·   Your unarmed attacks deal 1d4 lethal damage. (1)

Instead of bumping up your unarmed damage a tiny bit, you might want to try:

 ·   You gain the Unarmed proficiency.
OR
 ·   Your unarmed, melee and non-exotic hurled attacks possess the Armour Piercing (2) quality.

The Unarmed proficiency makes your unarmed damage 1d6 lethal, so that one's really just a Spycraft-isized version of what you've already got. I threw the second out there as a possible alternative for your cyborgs to be dishing out pain when up close and ugly with people.

·    You may select up to four additional caliber II Cybernetic gear picks (4 total) and a base level cyberbrain. (1.5)

Another 4 point Talent ability raises Wealth and continues to give bonus as Career Level increases. While it doesn't give as nice of a boost right from the beginning, it's still something you might want to consider.

·   Feats that alter your physical body (i.e. Toughness, etc.) have no effect. (-1 another I wasn't too sure about)

This one is one that, personally, I'm not overly fond of. I see no reason why you can't explain feats like Toughness with something along the lines of "And then we installed a new layer of pseudo-futuristic cyborg skin armor Type B". If you want to restrict feats, I would probably try to find a way to restrict entire feat trees instead of a few feats here, does this one alter the physical body or not, etc. Makes bookkeeping and makes it easier on players when choosing feats for their character. So maybe for your cyborg Talent, saying that you can't gain Chance feats as bonus feats from a class, only at Career Levels 3, 6, 9, etc. Something like that would sit with me a little better.

·   Triple your base weight. Your increased weight gives you a –10 penalty to all Athletics (Swim) checks. (-5 I went with a -0.5/2 points to the penalty)

You might want to even look into the banned checks NPC quality for Athletics/Swim checks. You'd need to find 2 other checks or actions that your cyborgs wouldn't be able to make, but maybe something to consider.

·   You have a reduced sense of touch, and suffer a –2 penalty to all skill checks that involve manual dexterity, such as Electronics, Mechanics, Medicine, Security, and Sleight of Hand. (-2.5 same as with the swim checks, just added all five skill penalties together)

For this bullet, see if giving the character the all thumbs NPC quality to make your character more clumsy like.

One of my favorite parts of the system is how easy it is to design your own Origins. I like what you're doing and hope you're having fun with the system.

[glimmerrat]

Ok, i'm intrigued by this idea. I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

[whiterabbit]

Just glancing over it I noticed these things.

The Unarmed proficiency makes your unarmed damage 1d4 lethal, so that one's really just a Spycraft-isized version of what you've already got.

I was not aware of this one. I had been looking all over the book for something like this rule, but could find nothing until you mentioned it. This'll be changed right away.

Another 4 point Talent ability raises Wealth and continues to give bonus as Career Level increases. While it doesn't give as nice of a boost right from the beginning, it's still something you might want to consider.

It does sound better. Another modification to do.

This one is one that, personally, I'm not overly fond of. I see no reason why you can't explain feats like Toughness with something along the lines of "And then we installed a new layer of pseudo-futuristic cyborg skin armor Type B". If you want to restrict feats, I would probably try to find a way to restrict entire feat trees instead of a few feats here, does this one alter the physical body or not, etc. Makes bookkeeping and makes it easier on players when choosing feats for their character. So maybe for your cyborg Talent, saying that you can't gain Chance feats as bonus feats from a class, only at Career Levels 3, 6, 9, etc. Something like that would sit with me a little better.

Well, I'm going to have implants that can be used to toughen up 'borgs as gear picks, hence, the negating of feats that alter your VP/WP totals. But then again, I could just have those implants as feats of the same name. And I don't think that limiting Chance feats as you suggested would be appropriate to the talent. Why would the 'borg be less inclined to luck than anyone else? Doesn't quite fit IMO, and none of the other feat groups could reasonably be limited in that way. I suppose I could leave the limitation off entirely, since that would make the talent 6 points instead of 7...

You might want to even look into the banned checks NPC quality for Athletics/Swim checks. You'd need to find 2 other checks or actions that your cyborgs wouldn't be able to make, but maybe something to consider.

I didn't want to ban it entirely because there'll be aquatic adaptation available as an implant that would negate much of this penalty. Also, I couldn't find the banned checks NPC quality.

For this bullet, see if giving the character the all thumbs NPC quality to make your character more clumsy like.

I do like the idea of increasing the error range of some skills better than just a penalty, but don't think I'll apply it to attacks as well.

Thanks for all your input. I'll be making the changes I agreed with now. ^_^

[OverNinja]

Banned checks are in the Light of Olympus PDF.

You could have Athlecitcs/Swim as a banned check, and have a feat that removes that quality (and maybe gives some other diving related goodies, like scuba tank or something).
Just my 2 cents EUR/3 cents USD.

[whiterabbit]

::reads::

Why so it is. But is it worth -5 points in the build? I'd have to come up with something else as well to even it out a little.

[Foghorn]

The build would need some reworking as 3 banned checks is a -0.5 penalty. So, you either need to come up with a LOT of banned checks or find some benefits to trim off the big guy.

[whiterabbit]

All right. So I replaced the -10 to swim checks with:

·   You gain the Banned checks NPC quality. You may not make Acrobatics/Jump checks, Athletics/Climb checks, or Athletics/Swim checks.

However, since it's only worth -1.5 points at most, I need to come up with -3.5 points of disadvantages. I'll check back when I have something.

[Krensky]

Hmm... the more I think about this, the more I think that Shirow-esk full body cyborgs may best be represented by one of more feats and the gear rules.

[tenebrae]

However, since it's only worth -1.5 points at most, I need to come up with -3.5 points of disadvantages. I'll check back when I have something.

Actually, that's -0.5 in total for 3 banned checks.

[whiterabbit]

Okay, made some changes. Exchanged the lethal damage for unarmed proficiency, the gear bonuses for the new wealth stat, the swim penalty for three banned checks, the skill penalties for increased error ranges on them, and left off the increased base speed and bonus to defense. A little better?

[whiterabbit]

Finally got the next step in the cyborg process. With this master class, you can go from a production line model ("off the rack" if you will), to a full blown Ghost in the Shell, or Appleseed military line model.

MILITARY-GRADE CYBORG
For some, life as a cyborg is a curse. A cross one must bear throughout your life. For others, they move on with their lives and make the best of a bad situation. For them, they turn being a living machine into an advantage, rather than a burden. At their option, they undergo a minor outpatient procedure to place their organs within a military chassis. This gives them an exceptional power to weight ratio, as well as staying power to wipe the field of minor, unarmored players. No civilian life for them. Instead, the excitement and thrills of a military cyborg are for them! Unfortunately, only the strong-willed are allowed to take these more dangerous bodies, and you must be able to pass a psychological exam before the operation.
Attributes: As a dedicated warrior, the physical attributes are still the best choices for you. Chief among them being Strength and Constitution for those who prefer hand-to-hand, and Dexterity and Constitution for those of a more subtle bent.
Vitality: 1d12 + Con modifier per level.

REQUIREMENTS
Origin: Full Conversion Cyborg.
Wisdom: 13+
Charisma: 13+
Feats: Cybertaker, Iron Will.
Special: Must pass a psychological exam, and either have the resources for the new body, or a sponsor.

CLASS SKILLS
The military-Grade Cyborg’s class skills are Acrobatics, Athletics, Blend, Computers, Intimidate, Resolve, and Tactics.
Skill points at each additional level: 4 + Int modifier.

CLASS ABILITIES
Cyborg Epitome I: Your new body has granted you increased strength and dexterity. You gain a +1 bonus to Strength, and a +2 bonus to Dexterity.
Living Legend: At level 1, your starting action dice increase by one.
Weather the Elements: Your new body is tougher allowing you to take more punishment from energy sources. Your Damage resistance (Cold), Damage resistance (Fire), and Damage resistance (Electricity) each increase by 5 for a total of 10 in each.
Cyborg Epitome II: You’ve taken the next stage in development as a machine of war. No longer do you maintain the lie that you’re nothing more than human, you openly proclaim your power with a body obviously more machine than human. Your strength and constitution each increase by 2.
Ballistic Angle: Your shell is angled to deflect incoming blows, increasing your Defense by 2.
Signing Bonus: At level 4, you’re given an incentive to stay with your sponsor. You may choose one Caliber I – Caliber II cybernetic implant of your choice. This bonus implant is specifically tuned to your body, and only has half the Humanity loss attribute.
Bring on the Pain: Your outer shell is exceptionally tough, increasing your damage reduction to 4/-

Table: The Military-Grade Cyborg
Level__BAB__Fort__Ref__Will__Def__Init__Wealth__Gear_____Class Abilities
1_____+1___+2___+0__+0___+1__+0_____1_____1C______Cyborg Epitome I, Living Legend
2_____+2___+3___+0__+0___+1__+0_____2_____1C______Weather the Elements
3_____+3___+3___+1__+1___+2__+1_____2_____1C, 1W__Cyborg Epitome II
4_____+4___+4___+1__+1___+2__+1_____2_____1C, 1W___Ballistic Angle, Signing Bonus
5_____+5___+4___+1__+1___+3__+1_____3_____2C, 1W___Bring on the Pain


Whatcha think? Comments? Criticisms? Flames? No, not that...

[Krensky]

I can't particularly place it, but nothing about the talent and master class feels like Shirow's work.

Mostly, I suppose because it makes an essentially minor character element in both Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell into a central facet of the characters.