Thanks for the index in SC 2.0

[Merxiless]

Dear Crafty Games Designers,

Our group ran into a problem, Sunday, in that we were trying to figure out exactly how to run the interrogation dramatic conflict.

We printed the cards from my .pdf i bought from drivethrough onto 92 weight cardstock.

Surprisingly, they were still quite readable, though the print was small.

Cutting the cards up, we set up piles for predator and prey.

Looking at the cards most of them required will saves of 4+.
Both the prey and the predator had will saves of +3, being low level characters.

So, the group we had present got into an hour long discussion of:

Should we just use a die?
How is it that a character has to be about a lvl 6 snoop or so to even try to use bad cop as a predator strategy, let alone good cop?

We suggested roleplaying it out instead, etc.

So, Just on the off chance that we had missed something, I looked at the index, and we started looking at will saves, and how to increase them, and interrogations.

Finally, because the index was so complete, we stumbled onto the Breakpoints feat.

My lightbulb came on as I said, "Okay, look. Take this feat, and you can use any interrogation strategy. This is like MK Ultra interrogation training.  The counter of it allows anyone to resist interrogation, by their using any prey strategy.  Like some KGB trained guy, captured by the FBI...He isn't going to talk."

So all we have to do is, next level, someone here, take this breakpoints.

One of my players looked up from his sheet, and said, "Okay, Dude, I have it! Been had it. I just forgot!"

Grand.  We all laughed for a good 5 minutes, as we said man, here we were thinknig this was like some messed up game, where a low to mid level agent, can't interrogate someone, except "wait it out." 

In Game:
Thus the interrogation went well, in that our "Joint Operations Group" Pointman 2 / Faceman 1 over the next 1 realtime hour (in game 4 hours) interrogated a captured Merc female sniper from a Venezuelan drug lord, broke her down, found out who she was working for, a rough idea of her organization, and shifted her disposition to neutral, setting her up for recruitment as an asset, perhaps next scenario.

In summary:

Whoever at Crafty labored long hours typing the index, perhaps thinking, nobody is ever going to use this...We used it, and it paid off.  Your work was well appreciated by myself and my game group.   This experience just enhances my appreciation of the SC 2.0 book even more, as a game system.

Great job.

James / Merxiless

[Crafty_Pat]

Whoever at Crafty labored long hours typing the index, perhaps thinking, nobody is ever going to use this...We used it, and it paid off.  Your work was well appreciated by myself and my game group.   This experience just enhances my appreciation of the SC 2.0 book even more, as a game system.

Great job.

Thank you kindly. Indexing is a rare form of dementia I and only a few like-addled individuals enjoy. It's gratifying to see the sickne- er, skill appreciated.

[Aragathor]

Whoever at Crafty labored long hours typing the index, perhaps thinking, nobody is ever going to use this...We used it, and it paid off.  Your work was well appreciated by myself and my game group.   This experience just enhances my appreciation of the SC 2.0 book even more, as a game system.

Great job.

Thank you kindly. Indexing is a rare form of dementia I and only a few like-addled individuals enjoy. It's gratifying to see the sickne- er, skill appreciated.

Indexing is not dementia. Truth to be told it's fun.
There are few things more relaxing than an hour or so spent on indexing your possessions, be it books, wepons or anything else.

[TheAuldGrump]

Whoever at Crafty labored long hours typing the index, perhaps thinking, nobody is ever going to use this...We used it, and it paid off.  Your work was well appreciated by myself and my game group.   This experience just enhances my appreciation of the SC 2.0 book even more, as a game system.

Great job.

Thank you kindly. Indexing is a rare form of dementia I and only a few like-addled individuals enjoy. It's gratifying to see the sickne- er, skill appreciated.

Would that the folks at WotC shared your dementia. 

And the bookmarking on the PDF is even better.

The Auld Grump

[Slippery_jim_digris]

It's my belief that any RPG that does not have a good index is not worth buying!

I really mean that one of the first things I check in a rulebook is its index, I don't know how many times I've cursed because I could not find a rule that I know I seen.

James Bolivar DiGris

[Ezram]

I suppose it also depends on the size of the book. In a smaller one, it's usually more forgivable.

In this one though, it's a necessity.

[NezMaster]

Among my gaming freinds, we find the fact that the gaming industry seems to be one of the only publishing industries that don't believe in putting indexes in refrence books hillarious.

The games I like (Hero, Rolemaster, Spycraft) have excellent, thourough well written indexes. The index to hero 5.0 is so complete that it has terms that were used in 4.0 in it, referring to the NEW term in 5.0, so the old guard players can find it.

It is odd that the size of the company is directly converse to the size of the index. White Wolf and WOTC usually have no index at all. "Gee, who's going to want to look up a specific rule in a 200 page RULE book?"

So yes, I find that your index is worth thanking you for.  In our group any time we find any book with a poor index, it's automatically referred to as 'the school of white wolf indexing'.

[Ezram]

But are the books not otherwise of good quality?

[dpmcalister]

I don't think quality comes into it. The lack of a decent index on my WotC D&D books is a real pain. So much so that my group have started putting our own one together! (We don't intend on moving to 4e )

Of course, I would be in favour of indexing given that the Spycraft 1.0 Master Index was my baby for a short while

[Aragathor]

But are the books not otherwise of good quality?

Nope. You must see a steady decline of quality in many releases from WotC and WW.
If you compare something old, then you will notice how the books have moved from high quality low glamour books (AD&D) to glossy pieces of junk where a lot space is wasted with useless stuffing (D&D 3.5)

[Merxiless]

The lack of a decent index on my WotC D&D books is a real pain.

Exactly why I left my thanks.

I'm also on the WOTC forums. Trying to help new D&D DMs and players find rules in books is a herculean task, given that the typical help request is:

I know there is a rule, regarding zombies.. in one or the other books. But I can't find it.

Yeah, neither can people who've played D&D since 1979.

[Forcegypsy]

I'd like to add my thanks here as well. Part of this is that I know Crafty is comprised of a bunch of life-time gamers doing this part time for love and hopefully, profit. In my review for the 2.0 pdf I spent some time lauding the excellent bookmarks. It makes navigating through the rulebook effortless.  As a GM, I LOVE indexes, because frequently, I'm asked questions by my players and my memory is not what you'd call photographic. Seriously, good job gentlemen.

[Crafty_Alex]

I'm also on the WOTC forums. Trying to help new D&D DMs and players find rules in books is a herculean task, given that the typical help request is:

I know there is a rule, regarding zombies.. in one or the other books. But I can't find it.

Yeah, neither can people who've played D&D since 1979.

This is why the D&D Rules Compendium has a market 

[Number Three]

But are the books not otherwise of good quality?

Nope. You must see a steady decline of quality in many releases from WotC and WW.
If you compare something old, then you will notice how the books have moved from high quality low glamour books (AD&D) to glossy pieces of junk where a lot space is wasted with useless stuffing (D&D 3.5)

I wouldn't go that far.  I don't have any experience with White Wolf, but WotC books lean toward well layed out and well edited.  Past that, their high production rate means their other qualities vary wildly from book to book, and nothing has had as many graphical touches as the three core books.  Player's Handbook II seems well regarded in these parts, filled with keen ideas and useful mechanics.  The Dungeon Master's Guide II, however, is a wad of useless text masquerading as campaign advice, printed with a noticeably larger font than usual and extra wide margins to fill the page count.

I've also seen enough sessions grind to a halt furiously searching the entire catalogue for "that rule" that indexing is sorely needed, and something akin to Dave's old Master Index would be a godsend.