Staff combat in SC2.0

[Ezram]

Hm...I guess I glossed it over then.

[RichardAshenden]

Just got WoF. It looks good and crunchy. I'll have to keep from leaving crumbs in bed! 

The Staff Mastery and Supremacy feats look delicious.  My only gripe is that I've gotta have BAB +12 to use Supremacy. 

I assume that in SC2.0 a staff would offer subdual dam. only. Is there a feat where a PC can employ the staff with real damage instead of just subdual? Thanks.

(As you may already discern, I'm still learning the system, so please bear with this green recruit!) 

[Ezram]

I did a quick scan under the "damage" section and Melee Combat feats. Nothing helpful there as far as I could tell, but there may be an option I missed.

I suppose one could always break their staff in half and use it as an improvised spear? 

[Morgenstern]

Heh. Subdual damage is way more evil than lethal...

Check the Bludgeon feat (covert tree) for a permanent cure for your subdual/lethal swaps.

As a house rule, I'd allow the use of 1 weapon upgrade to change a melee weapon from doing subdual to lethal. It's essentially the inverse of the practice weapon upgrade.

You might find Mark of Turmoil (Chance tree) interesting for your Supremacy feat needs...

[Ezram]

Like heavier material in the staff, or ridged/knobbed ends?

[Morgenstern]

Yup. I'm a big fan of the iron-shod staff.

[Forcegypsy]

Like heavier material in the staff, or ridged/knobbed ends?

One of Spycraft's main conceits is that in game explanations are all well and good, but the important thing is the mechanics. So, far future force effect or fantasy exotic materials matters not. Use whatever fluff best fits the world you've created. Just don't let the fluff interfere with the underlying mechanics of the effect.

[Ezram]

Huh? I was offering a possible thematic explanation that could work in a modern, or near modern day setting which could help the poster if he decides to modify them, that's all.

[Antilles]

Because I don't feel it was answered properly...

If you wish to deal lethal rather than subdual damage, you can during every attack choose to convert the damage, but it will cost you a -4 penalty to the attack check. (See page 345, second printing.)

[Forcegypsy]

Because I don't feel it was answered properly...

If you wish to deal lethal rather than subdual damage, you can during every attack choose to convert the damage, but it will cost you a -4 penalty to the attack check. (See page 345, second printing.)

Or you know the obvious answer . Thanks Antilles.

[Ezram]

Y'know, it's wierd: I thought you could convert non-lethal damage from lethal melee weapons with the -4 penalty, but not the other way around.

[Psion]

Y'know, it's wierd: I thought you could convert non-lethal damage from lethal melee weapons with the -4 penalty, but not the other way around.

Not sure what you mean, but the damage conversion rule says "or vice versa", so you can convert both ways.

[Ezram]

That's right, I thought it only went one way (You could convert from lethal melee to subdual melee damage with the -4) and not vice-versa (subdual melee damage to lethal melee damage). 

[MDL]

Tangentially related question:

There's the normal 'convert lethal to subdual or vice versa' system, which I understand for melee and hurled.

However, I'm not clear on how the conversion rules apply to unarmed combat.

In the case of untrained(no proficiency) unarmed, you're only capable of subdual by default, so you do subdual with the option to use the rules to convert to lethal.  Makes sense.

When you have the proficiency, you can do lethal with no conversion necessary.  I would assume you can still choose to do subdual if you choose.  At this point, you've gained no noticeable damage increase so there are no balance reasons you couldn't, and common sense would imply you could.

Then the tricky part comes.  Martial Arts and Master's Art start playing around with the unarmed damage, potentially increasing it drastically.  Allowing those to be done as subdual with no penalty might be a little broken... mainly for the focused on combat, prioritized Strength attribute strength based martial arts/master's art build.  If you have those talents, and choose to do unarmed subdual damage, how should it be dealt with?  Allow the no penalty switch, or force them to choose between 'no penalty, but use the no feats involved damage' or 'penalty, but you get the full feat based damage'?

[Morgenstern]

Just take it in stages and it will be clearer.

A character without the unarmed proficiency inflicts 1d3 subdual. He may accept a -4 to his attack check to inflict 1d3 lethal.

A character with the unarmed proficiency typically inflicts 1d4 lethal. He may accept a -4 to his attack check to inflict 1d4 subdual (unlikely, but doable). He may still inflict 1d3 subdual (without penalty).

A character with the Martial Arts feat typically inflicts 1d6 lethal. He may accept a -4 to his attack check to inflict 1d6 subdual. He may still inflict 1d3 subdual (without penalty).

A character with the Masters Arts feat typically inflicts 2d6 lethal. He may accept a -4 to his attack check to inflict 2d6 subdual. He may still inflict 1d3 subdual (without penalty).

Characters with the Bludgeon feat ignore the -4 penealty for damage conversion.

The other option which is not worded quite as clearly as I would like is the Pummel action, letting you take a full action to beat the snot out of someone at no penalty and inflicting double your normal damage AS subdual damage (i.e. d3x2/d4x2/d6x2/2d6x2 following the progression above). Pummel is bassically THE way to thrash someone if you can afford to spend a whole round doing it.