Some questions about the rules

[whiterabbit]

One more question (I feel like Columbo, here...). How do you handle disproportionately powerful PC races? Say you wanted to allow ogres, or trolls, or something notably more powerful than a standard human? Is there a LA mechanic, or something similar? I hate to bring in something needlessly complex into the game, but the campaign I'm converting will have genetically altered humans and full conversion cyborgs and such.

[Krensky]

Through a mixture of talents, feats, and master classes. Look at Origin of the Species for examples of how it's done. As an example, it includes playable centaurs.  Any thing specific?

[whiterabbit]

Well, to start with, in this setting there's cyberware everywhere you look. It runs the gamut  from bio-replacement parts, to full-conversion 'borgs where the only remaining humanity left is the brain, spinal cord and a few other organs.

Secondly, there are genetically altered humans called replicants, syntheitc humans, or just synths. They range from the pleasure synth (whose purpose is self-explanatory), to the top of the line combat synth, the puma (exceptionally strong, tough and plentiful with feline ears instead of human).

Lastly, there are genetic upgrades which take a human (usually around 8-12 yo, but anytime before puberty is best) and enhance their attributes to better suit a chosen lifepath.

I'll look into that Origin of the Species book too.

[ThunderMonkey]

Ah, I see. Then no. We have no plans to go beyond Level 20. It would just be overkill.

Of course, you could just keep playing - with or without XP. Extrapolating class table extensions is fairly simple and with campaign qualities you could even continue to grow, translating XP directly into character options.

I was looking at the 20-level cap... when trying to do a Snake Eyes character write up. I would be better off making him a NPC, because limiting Snake Eyes to just 20 levels would be rather difficult considering what he can do.

I would be interested to see what kind of character options would be available. Or just give me a sample and let me see what I can run away with.

[Krensky]

Ok whiterabbit, let's go one at a time, although this should probably wind up in another topic if you have other questions or want ot work on it here.

Well, to start with, in this setting there's cyberware everywhere you look. It runs the gamut  from bio-replacement parts, to full-conversion 'borgs where the only remaining humanity left is the brain, spinal cord and a few other organs.

Ok, cybernetic parts are gadgets with your body as the housing. More in-depth home brew can be found in another topic. A cyberpunk book is in the plans, but we had no idea when it was coming before the change in announcments. Alex, I think, did state that it will have a new wealth category called chrome that is used for cyberwear.

Secondly, there are genetically altered humans called replicants, syntheitc humans, or just synths. They range from the pleasure synth (whose purpose is self-explanatory), to the top of the line combat synth, the puma (exceptionally strong, tough and plentiful with feline ears instead of human).

These would be straight talents and feats. The Origin creation rules are in the wiki.

Lastly, there are genetic upgrades which take a human (usually around 8-12 yo, but anytime before puberty is best) and enhance their attributes to better suit a chosen lifepath.

Again, talents.

[Morgenstern]

Another possible tool for fast forward worlds where all the movers and shakers have various upgrades is to increase the number of points allowed for buying attributes. You can explain a LOT of body mods, personna psych-training, and hyper-modern afterborn add-ons with 4-10 more points for choosing your stats.

[whiterabbit]

These would be straight talents and feats. The Origin creation rules are in the [ur;=http://www.crafty-games.com/node/179]wiki[/url].

That's exactly what I was looking for. Hard numbers to balance out the races to make. I'm still going to look into the Origin of the Species book as well as the cyber book (hope it's soon!), but this will help immensely.

[Krensky]

These would be straight talents and feats. The Origin creation rules are in the [ur;=http://www.crafty-games.com/node/179]wiki[/url].

That's exactly what I was looking for. Hard numbers to balance out the races to make. I'm still going to look into the Origin of the Species book as well as the cyber book (hope it's soon!), but this will help immensely.

Origin of the Species lays out the why and gives you some examples of how Crafty does races. It's not just a talent, there's also discussion about types and racial feats.

It will be quite a bit before we see Shatterpunk. Perhaps not until next year. Fantasy Craft, Henchman, and 10kB are up first, along with a number of PDFs.

[Nepenthe]

It will be quite a bit before we see Shatterpunk. Perhaps not until next year. Fantasy Craft, Henchman, and 10kB are up first, along with a number of PDFs.

I'd consider next year "early", tbh.

[Crafty_Alex]

It will be quite a bit before we see Shatterpunk. Perhaps not until next year. Fantasy Craft, Henchman, and 10kB are up first, along with a number of PDFs.

I'd consider next year "early", tbh.

We're not there with next year's schedule yet...but such is the life of a small company with big ideas 

[Ezram]

Is there any problem with say, making a race instead of having to waste a Talent or Speciality to have it?

Well, seeing as it's the opinion of all the designers, it's also the direction of the game. It's what we've decided is best for Spycraft.

Oh, well then perhaps someone else should take over the wheel for a while. Very close-minded thinking there: it's including an option, not deviating from the fundamentals of the game (what's in the Core rules).

[Bill Whitmore]

Is there any problem with say, making a race instead of having to waste a Talent or Speciality to have it?

Well, you aren't really wasting a Talent or Specialty.  Origins were designed to customize the starting character.  They do this by giving certain mechanical benefits to the character that takes them.  Mechanically, this is all a race does for you.  By utilizing Talents and Specialties for races, it allows them to maintain balance between the races while not having to implement a Level Adjustment system.

If you really want to change the baseline so people can take races as something other than Origin options, you could do a campaign quality, like "Inherent Races:  All characters begin play as a certain race.  They must pick from the list below.  Human: Blah bonuses, Dwarf: Blah bonus, Elf: ...etc".

Oh, well then perhaps someone else should take over the wheel for a while. Very close-minded thinking there: it's including an option, not deviating from the fundamentals of the game (what's in the Core rules).

I for one am perfectly happy with the decision to cap levels at 20.  In 20+ years of gaming I have exactly one character that has ever made it over level 20.  Many of the people I have played with and/or met at conventions don't even have that many.

Spending any amount of serious time developing post-20 play options would be losing proposition.  You don't deploy 50% of your resources to something < 1% of the players are going to use.

[Crafty_Pat]

Is there any problem with say, making a race instead of having to waste a Talent or Speciality to have it?

Well, seeing as it's the opinion of all the designers, it's also the direction of the game. It's what we've decided is best for Spycraft.

Oh, well then perhaps someone else should take over the wheel for a while. Very close-minded thinking there: it's including an option, not deviating from the fundamentals of the game (what's in the Core rules).

Actually, since the official core rules present only 20 levels and require you to choose species as Talents, what you're proposing does, in fact, deviate from them. As we say all the time, it's your license to improvise and you should feel free to change things to suit your game, but those changes are only likely to impact the core rules - i.e. the ones in our products - if we feel they're superior, and perhaps not even then if the changes are severe and/or the rules have already been published, as is the case with the species material.

The original question about epic levels seemed to point to official rules rather than house rules, and I believe that take is justified by the fact that the post showed up here in Control Transmissions rather than the License to Improvise board, so I responded officially. If you'd like to develop an additional 10 levels of play and alternate species rules, please, feel free to head on over to the License to Improvise board and indulge. I'm sure some folks will appreciate the effort. If you go back and check my original post, BTW - the part you clipped out when you quoted me - you'll see that I suggested just that from the beginning, again framing my response as "official" but leaving all the room in the world for your unofficial tinkering.

And you do realize that posting to a company's boards that the company should fire itself isn't going to win you any friends, right? It's kinda like me showing up to your house and saying, "That kid doesn't look very well fed and her clothes are a little ratty. How about I take her down to the local Denny's? Maybe a trip to the mall for some new threads? In fact, I can hang on to her for a while 'cause it's clear you're not doing a very good job."

[Krensky]

Is there any problem with say, making a race instead of having to waste a Talent or Speciality to have it?

Well, seeing as it's the opinion of all the designers, it's also the direction of the game. It's what we've decided is best for Spycraft.

Oh, well then perhaps someone else should take over the wheel for a while. Very close-minded thinking there: it's including an option, not deviating from the fundamentals of the game (what's in the Core rules).

Ahem, to paraphrase Dennis Ritchie:

If you want D&D, you know where to find it.

[Forcegypsy]

Is there any problem with say, making a race instead of having to waste a Talent or Speciality to have it?

Well, seeing as it's the opinion of all the designers, it's also the direction of the game. It's what we've decided is best for Spycraft.

Oh, well then perhaps someone else should take over the wheel for a while. Very close-minded thinking there: it's including an option, not deviating from the fundamentals of the game (what's in the Core rules).

LOL. Sorry, this made me chuckle. Crafty is 3+1 guys (and Scott aka Morgenstern is the rules crunch maestro). They've apparently looked at how races are done in standard (read modern or d&d) d20 and decided to go another way for what they determined to be sufficient and cogent reasons. Most, if not all of Crafty fans, seeing some of the thought process behind the direction Crafty decided to take, agree with it, in fact many had the lightbulb 'AHA' moment when they started to understand the reasoning behind it. IMO, it is an elegant solution to the well-acknowledged problems with tools like Level Adjustment.

You can disagree, that's your prerogative and there's a License to Improvise forum where you can let your imagination soar and provide alternatives which can be commented on by your fellow forum members and the designers alike...But, your comment above that I bolded . How is that intended to persuade anyone? It's needlessly combative and IMO, in poor taste.