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3466  Products / Fantasy Craft / Re: a greek fantasy setting on: April 13, 2010, 09:43:40 AM
• Diverse: Choose a Talent. You gain all features of that talent. Possessing a Talent does not change your species to “human”. (7.0)
This would be a Species Feat, correct?

Its a really expensive benefit for a Species. It takes 7 of your 7 design points. Basically you can hook it to some 0 value stuff and/or put together a mix of benefits and drawbacks that sum to 0.
3467  Products / Fantasy Craft / Re: Weapon upgrades on: April 13, 2010, 07:47:23 AM
Funny how all of these problems go away when you remove Guard as an upgrade Grin.
Maybe, but then I'd have to do the same with reach, and maybe others.
There is no reach upgrade Grin.
3468  Products / Powered by Products / Re: Old School Fantasy: What Would YOU Like to See? on: April 12, 2010, 06:59:53 PM
Heh, the core premise of good faerie tales in my experience is "If you take on hard work without complaint and are relentlessly polite... you'll live and probably will come out in roughly your original form. Unless it's a Russian folktale, in which case everyone dies, but you'll die the least painfully."
3469  Community / License to Improvise / [Notebook] Building New Origins: Attribute Modifiers on: April 12, 2010, 06:26:14 PM
Round 2!  Now with carefully scrutinized comparisons of additional cases.

The list presents a range of default combinations. To avoid redundant or awkward combinations all bonuses/penalties in a package must be odd or all bonuses/penalties in a package must be even. In all cases where there is a tie, the player chooses which attribute is adjusted. There are three modifiers you can apply to the packages listed here:
a)   At no cost: Substitute a choice of 2 attributes for a single "Attribute N".
b)   For an additional +0.5: Change specific attributes (one, some, or all) to grant choice of any, or a list of 3, 4 or 5 attributes.
c)   Reduce the cost by -0.5: Specify that the largest penalty must be applied to the largest attribute that does not receive a bonus.

Attribute Design Point Costs
-1.0 Points:
   –2 (Specific A)
0 Points:
   No Modifier
   +2 (Specific A), –4 (Specific B)
   +2 (Specific A), –2 (Specific B), –2 (Specific C)
   +2 to lowest attribute, then –2 to highest attribute
 .5 Points:
   +1 (Specific A), –1 (Specific B)
   +2 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B), –2 (Specific C)
   +1 (Specific A), +1 (Specific B), –2 (Specific C)
1.0 Points:
   +1 to lowest attribute
   +1 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B)
   +1 (Specific A)
   +2 (Specific A), –2 (Specific B)
   +1 (Specific A), +1 (Specific B), –1 (Specific C)
   +3 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B), –3 (Specific C)
1.5 Points:
   +1 to lowest attribute, then +1 to lowest attribute
   +2 to lowest attribute
   +4 (Specific A), –6 (Specific B)
 2.0 Points:
   +1 to highest attribute, then +1 to lowest attribute
   +2 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B)
   +1 to lowest attribute, then +1 to lowest attribute, then +1 to lowest attribute
   +1 (Specific A), +1 (Specific B)
   +2 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B), –4 (Specific C)
   +3 (Specific A), –3 (Specific B)
   +3 (Specific A), –1 (Specific B), –1 (Specific C), –1 (Specific D)
   +4 (Specific A), –2 (Specific B), –2 (Specific C), –2 (Specific D)
   +2 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B), –2 (Specific C), –2 (Specific D)
   +3 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B), –1 (Specific C)
2.5 Points:
   +2 (Specific A)
   +3 to lowest attribute
   +6 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B), –4 (Specific C), –4 (Specific D)
   +4 (Specific A), –4 (Specific B)
3.0 Points:
   +1 (Specific A), +1 (Specific B), +1 (Specific C)
   +3 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B)
   +3 (Specific A), –1 (Specific B)
   +4 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B), –2 (Specific C)
   +4 (Specific A), –2 (Specific B), –2 (Specific C)
   +2 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B), –2 (Specific C)
   +2 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B), +2 (Specific C), –2 (Specific D), –2 (Specific E) , –2 (Specific F)
3.5 Points:
   +3 (Specific A), +3 (Specific B), –3 (Specific C), –3 (Specific D)
   +4 (Specific A), –2 (Specific B)
   +5 (Specific A), –5 (Specific B)
   +6 (Specific A), –4 (Specific B), –4 (Specific C)
   +2 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B), +2 (Specific C), –2 (Specific D), –2 (Specific E)
4.0 Points:
   +1 (Specific A), +1 (Specific B), +1 (Specific C), +1 (Specific D)
   +3 (Specific A)
   +4 to lower of (Pair A) or (Pair B)
   +2 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B)
   +6 (Specific A), –6 (Specific B)
   +2 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B), +2 (Specific C), –2 (Specific D)
   +4 (Specific A), +2 (Specific B), –2 (Specific C), –2 (Specific D)
   +3 (Specific A), +3 (Specific B), –3 (Specific C)

Hope this helps!
3470  Products / Fantasy Craft / Re: a greek fantasy setting on: April 12, 2010, 04:36:09 PM
I know this is gonna sound self-evident at the math level but working with the Planescape conversion team we've added the following species option:

• Diverse: Choose a Talent. You gain all features of that talent. Possessing a Talent does not change your species to “human”. (7.0)

It's only allowed if the species has no attribute modifiers - which may not help here.
3471  Products / Fantasy Craft / Re: Weapon upgrades on: April 12, 2010, 04:32:40 PM
Funny how all of these problems go away when you remove Guard as an upgrade Grin.
3472  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 03:45:48 PM
I'm going to start a new thread with a fresh set of attribute packages (plugging in everything asked and learned here into a single table). I'll also open a new thread tackling non-attribute discussion shortly.

New attribute thread is up. I'm looking over types to see if I have anythign witty to offer as a starting point for a thread on other elements of origin creation (otherwise press on here).
3473  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 03:08:39 PM
Heh. I just realized Blankbeard has been asking me if rabbits are fluffy in my system.

Found the problem - it only occurs with +2 A, +2 B packages with a final value below 3.0 (+2,+2/-2, -2 vs. +4/-2,-2 shows the same iregularity).

I'm looking at a possible adjustment that will even things out, but I want to check (and re-check) cascading effects.

(I feel like a sci-fi engineer character running around the engine room with a wrench shouting "I can fix that! I can fix that!" in a slightly harried voice Smiley)
3474  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 03:03:56 PM
That is so INTENSELY campaign dependent I cringe. In some settings that could be -4.0 worth of hassle (there are no folk in a 150 mile radus, 'cause we ate them all), and in others it wouldn't be a drawback at all (feed a dollar-bill into the corner-market blood-box(tm) with a real live folk medically suspended inside each and every box - nothing could be fresher!). Plus, the GM just may not want to screw around with a character's table manners when he's really trying to keep up the pace of the narative.

Closest fit would seem to point towards some sort of subplot that the GM may activate once per adventure at no cost. That way the GM - not the clock - chooses when (and if) to side-track you with a burning need to feed. Once the GM triggers it, you get a stacking penalty until you address the sub plot. Even then its rather context sensitive, but at least it isn't annoying Wink. If the subplot actually gave XP like an extra mission objective, you could pretty much call it 0 design points - flavor-reinforcing rather than benefit or drawback.
3475  Legacy Games / Spycraft 2.0 / Re: Remind me again why people don't like the wheelman. on: April 12, 2010, 02:43:54 PM
Regular guy!!! Welcome back!!!

Yeah, but Bond isn't just supposed to be a superspy who has great chases; he's the archetype for "That's Impossible!"
(Back in 1.0, it was AFAICT impossible to build 007 without taking levels in Wheelman; did it bother folks then?)

It bothered me. That's one reason why that's impossible shifted down from 14th level gamebreaker to 10/20 in the 1st ed/2.0 shift - I wanted that sort of hijinks to be more widely distributed because Bond isn't the poster child for that's imposible - ALL action-espionage characters do it at some point during the film. It's a staple, not a game breaker.
3476  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 02:01:11 PM
Heh. I just realized Blankbeard has been asking me if rabbits are fluffy in my system.
3477  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
So +2 Any, +2 (attribute A), -4 (attribute B) would be 2.0 points, from the "add an any for 0.5" guideline.

Yes.

Quote
Then, I apply the +2 any to attribute A and get +4 (attribute A), -4 (attribute B) for 2.0 points instead of the 2.5 it normally costs.

That is true, which is unfortunate Sad.

Quote
Considering our earlier discussion about +2 Any, +2 (Attribute A), -2 Attribute B costing the same as +4 Attribute A, -2 Attribute B for that very reason I'm a bit mystified. Smiley

I was just noting in that case that the 'bump' method lined up nicely. It looks like in the lower bands it may not. Something I'll have to look at. We're getting close to the point where this method is ready for a bit more rigorous testing than I alone have been able to apply to it. It's held up pretty well - I've mostly been sifting corner cases in the fixed values. It's possible the bumps for "any" choices will have to be ajusted. Annoying, as the current model is so very easy to execute from a short table. Seductively so Wink.
3478  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 01:38:12 PM
Except that it doesn't. Check my numbers against yours, we both come out with 1.5 points for +2/+2/-4.
The methods of calculation are so different that the alignment may be coincidental. Thats why I find it genuinely interesting that folks are getting servicable analogs for a moderate number of cases. But my method deals in fractional points compared to what you are doing, so I can adjudicate much finer variations.

Quote
If your min-max'ers are anything like mine, 4-8 points.

Excellent answer. Assuming a highest score of 16, I get a net gain of 6. (Going higher actually tends to be disadvantageous in the long run, as does allowing a score to fall below 10 - and I build with the truely agressive min/maxer in mind Smiley)

Quote
How, exactly, does that translate to origin build points?

Do a few more cases. I'd start with a few more of the casses I've logged as being worth 1 design point before trying to branch out.
3479  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 12:54:26 PM
Two point difference in both of these cases.  +1, +1, -1 isn't listed, though I would doubt if it's more than 1.5.

1 Design Point
+1 (attribute A),+1 (attribute B), -1 (attribute C)

1.5 Design Points
+2 (attribute A), +2 (attribute B), -4 (attribute C)
3480  Community / License to Improvise / Re: [Notebook] Building New Races on: April 12, 2010, 12:43:19 PM
Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here, nor do I understand exactly why it wouldn't work.

What I'm saying is that in (for example) +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -4 Intelligence The first +2 "costs" more than a second +2 does. Because you are typically able to apply it to a larger base number.

Quote
Just because you're using some arcane formula doesn't mean it can't be mathematically simplified.

The formula is maybe arcane in philosophy, but the calculations are actually pretty simple Smiley. Look at table 1.1 and ask yourself, "what is the measurable difference between a character with no modifiers, and a character with +2/-2?" And remember, the system is built with the min-max'er in mind.
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