Now it is my turn to drink for you in sympathy.

- C.

It's not the thread's deviation that worries me... 

- C.

But if some tough PC, let's say with a Strength of 17, would want to litterally break the ropes, well, he can already lift/push/pull up to 840 lbs. I think. Since a hemp rope can hold up to 1000 lbs., I say it's a good time to call for an Athletics/Push Limit check to see if he can break its ropes with sheer strength. How cool would that be!

You, sir, may take an action die for that suggestion!

- C.

And, to be clear, I'm all in favor of not having to shoot people if it's at all avoidable.

My current case of the ass stems from foproy's apparent advocacy of selecting a less-effective defensive round in the hope that later trauma surgery will be more difficult.  This scenario assumes that lethal force was necessary, that it was not applied in sufficient magnitude, and that the aggressor survived to reach surgery.  Birdshot, I will repeat, will not consistently produce the incapacitating effects that you want in a defensive load.

- C.

it actually comes from some of the defensive magazines i have read. many of those will talk about the idea that a corpse cant sue. its not so much the pain, more the greater chance of death. fact is that if this person is not in the mindset to force me to pull the trigger, i don't want him coming back for revenge when he heals.

I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here, but I repeat: priorities.  Worry about surviving the gunfight before you worry about surviving the legal fight.

- C.

LOL.  Quite correct.  Just.. new owner.. new user.. I don't want to turn his brain into a law class on the practical application of lethal force.  

True that.  And neither of us has passed the Oklahoma bar exams, I suspect.

*laughs*  No.  I completely understand where Tegyrius is coming from, and I think that due to my previous and current training levels, I'm more available to the ability to 'walk' the ladder, so to speak.  Home users, I might have to admit that Teg might be right on his stance.  I'm just very hesitant of telling people to walk hot in a strange environment.  Dark.  Anxiety is up.  Adrenaline is pumping.  Without a bunny in the hole, it gives you at least one extra action as a space between accidentally putting a 6 inch hole in a loved one.  That said.. it also gives you one extra action to do if you need to get rounds down range.  (While training is good.. I always find until they're seated in the situation.. the training doesn't take hold.)

All valid points, and I'll admit I didn't consider the kids issue, nor the one of other family members who may show up unexpectedly.  In my household, it's just me and my wife, and we have implicit protocols in our common married language by which we announce our presence when we're coming in late.

And to be fair, I'm kinda leaning toward both right now. The cable system Otis puts out looks great for the "after every use" cleaning, with the disassemble-and-rod-it-out process saved for periodic (annual?) deep cleaning or something. Or am I wrong?

I have the Otis system for rifles and handguns and its advantage is that it fits much more handily in a range bag.  However, I've found that I don't typically need to clean in the middle of a range session or a class day.  Cleaning occurs at home or, in the case of a multi-day class, back at the hotel... which means the size isn't so much of a virtue.

Also, this is less of an issue for shotguns, but you can't use a cable system to knock loose a squib or a stuck casing.

also on the bird shot one thing he did not say was the wound from bird shot at close range would be much harder to operate on since it throws out so much more shot and its so tiny.

Dude, seriously.  If you're selecting defensive ammunition based on the difficulty of trauma surgery, you need to re-examine your priorities.

- C.

It's all good.  Not like you're advocating Dragonsbreath rounds or something... 

- C.

[ka-click]

Y'know, if the sound does scare off a potential threat, great.  It'll save you carpet cleaning bills and attorney fees.  But thinking a ka-click sound is a magic intruder-repelling wand has the potentially to be a terminally ignorant mindset.

If you think you need to investigate something with a gun, why are you heading out in your tactical bunny slippers at felony o'clock to investigate while you're holding a gun that's not ready for immediate use?  Get that round in the chamber as soon as you feel the need to pick up the weapon.  If it's a false alarm, you can clear the gun later.  Are you worried about walking around with a hot weapon?  Train until you are comfortable doing so, then keep your booger-picker off the bang-switch and keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

You do not know an intruder's mindset, training, sanity, or level of willingness and preparedness to do harm to you and yours.  Racking the slide so he can hear it gives him a few pieces of useful information.  First, it tells him what you're armed with.  Second, it tells him your approximate location.  Third, it tells him that you're threatening to use lethal force, and if he decides to escalate to the actual use of lethal force while you're still playing dominance games and hoping he runs away, you are going to have a problem.

- C.

When all is said and done, it's just concealment cut IIIA soft armor, using standard materials, in a carrier that looks like a polo shirt instead of a jacket, vest, hoodie, sweater, or suit coat.  It doesn't shed any weight, thickness, or, I suspect, summer discomfort.  Low-profile armor (trendy) has a detection DC of 20, which I think is appropriate for something like this.  I'd reserve gadget armor for protection that exceeds the capabilities of current materials science: equivalent protection in something that actually feels, breathes, and moves like normal clothing, with a much higher detection DC.  YMMV, but "gadget" says "super-science" to me, and I can order this online for the price of a new high-end laptop or rifle...

I wouldn't call that a gadget, Alex.  I believe that falls within the design intent of low-profile armor (trendy).

- C.

Has anyone else looked at Risk: Legacy and wanted to play through it to establish a Spycraft campaign setting?

(For those who haven't haven't heard of the latest iteration of Risk, it's customizable as a result of events during play. As in, the game comes with sealed envelopes marked "do not open until [X in-game event] occurs."  And bring your Sharpie - you'll be permanently altering the board as a result of some of those events.)

- C.

[Get training.]

Gentry, congratulations on your purchase!

Apologies in advance if any of this covers ground you've already gone over.  My belated two rounds cents:

Get training.  Find a reputable professional instructor and reserve a weekend and a few hundred bucks.

Know your state's laws on the use of lethal force.

Understand your weapon's terminal ballistics (the effect the projectile has on the guy you want to make terminal).  Also understand that if you have to use a firearm defensively, you will want to remove the threat by immediately incapacitating him.  I suggest the writings of Dr. G.K. Roberts, who moderates the terminal ballistics forum on M4carbine.net.  Go read some of his sticky posts at the top of that forum, starting with Basic Wound Ballistic Terminal Performance Facts.  Then you will understand why I write the next two things:

Never use birdshot as a defensive round.  It will not consistently penetrate enough tissue to produce incapacitation.

Never rely on the sound of racking the slide as a deterrent.  The effect of this is highly dependent on your aggressor's mindset and may be more of a liability than an advantage.  If you need a gun, the time for reasoned discourse and persuasion has passed.

Don't screw around with less-lethal rounds.  They are not intended for your situation (as described and implied thus far).  They are intended for use by cops who have the equipment and training to restrain a suspect after he's temporarily subdued - and who have backup with lethal firearms on scene and ready to engage if necessary.

Birdshot is fine for practice.  You'll still learn how to manipulate the weapon and - this is a subjective observation - its recoil is less fatiguing over a range session or class of a few hundred rounds.  For defensive use, do a bunch of research and make your own decision.  The general opinion in the tacticool forums in which I lurk seems to be that #4 and #00 buckshot are optimal for most civilian defensive use, while slugs are best reserved for the occasional longer shot or for turning cover into concealment.

Become comfortable with the weapon.  Learn how to run it under stress (again, training) to minimize the chance of an operator-induced malfunction and to develop the muscle memory for manipulation when adrenaline turns your hands to flippers.

Understand that you still need to aim.  The rule of thumb for buckshot's spread is 1" of pattern per 36" of range.  In my house, my longest shot allowed by architecture is just over 30', which gives me a 10" pattern.  That's some room for imprecise marksmanship but not a lot.  Test your intended defensive load at your maximum likely engagement range so you know how it patterns in your gun.  I got a nasty surprise when I tried out Federal's FliteControl load and got a pattern at 40' that was only slightly larger than a single slug hit.

Have fun!  Be safe!  And if you can't be safe, be dangerous to the right people.

- C.

That's hardcore. I want one.

Originals are rarer than hen's teeth but Special Interest Arms offers Enfield conversions and Valkyrie Arms seems to be building reproductions.  So, yes, agents can get ahold of them in the modern era without robbing museums...

- C.

Wait, wait... so England are the lizards?

Paging David Icke... Mr. Icke, please report to game table #12...

- C.

Or, let's be honest, you can spin your GM a kickin' story of why this is fucking awesome, and let him handwave it in. Don't gotta be spelled out in teh roolz to be kool at your table. And waiving species-specific feat prerequisites is about as far from gamebreaking as it gets.

Well, the PC in question already rides a Large Velociraptor (slightly down-powered to avoid exceeding the Lancer-granted Animal Companion XP cap).  So the wings would really be overkill for awesome.

- C.