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1  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: Today at 07:23:22 AM
Also people hate Austerity and, though I'm too tired to dig up stats, even the financial arguments for it's implementation are weak because you don't make up a tax shortfall by curbing spending.

All those cuts to social programs produce costs -sick people cost more to treat uninsured, hungry people aren't making taxable food purchases, non-maintained infrastructure produces more accidents that cost productivity and lives, uneducated citizens are pretty worse at everything except being stupid, etc etc etc.

Brain's fried, will tilt at the windmills again tomorrow. Will watch those videos, too.

Goodnight all.
Be good, and if you can't be good be accurate. Wink
2  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: Today at 07:15:53 AM
The EU considers the UK to be the most violent country within their organization. Gun violence may have gone down but everything else went up: assaults, robberies, rapes, theft, home invasions, burglaries, and so on.

Stats plz.

They may have strict gun control laws but how many other freedoms do they give up as well.

I don't know; can you tell me?

As much as I would love to visit Canada and enjoy many Canadian performers doing their job, they are not permitted to publicly criticize their own government anywhere.

>Citation Needed.

Many of those "socialist" European states also have tremendously high tax rates and more than one of my friends in France has stated they stopped caring about the government because it never listens to them anyway. They have no real means to stand up to them. Why do you think all the austerity marches keep happening? ...

Because of poorly planned retirement costs that didn't anticipate for a falling birthrate among France's higher earners combined with an influx of refugees from the Middle East?

On a side note, taxation is theft because the government is neither inheriting money from us here in America nor is it trading sweat from its brow in equal transaction for what it takes.

Does not compute. Laws being broken?
Though if you want to feel even angrier about taxes read "Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich--and Cheat Everybody Else" available here at Amazon in paperback.

Don't even get me started on civil asset forfeiture laws breaking the 5th Amendment.

Yeah, CAF is utterly insanity.
Even in Assbackwardistan and it's neighboring provinces the guards who demand bribes at checkpoints don't pretend they're doing it legally.

I mean, let me be clear: I possess no real conviction in a belief that The System is really all that fair any more. It might have been totally sweet at some point, but it's pretty fucked up now.

That said I also want to be clear about this: history makes the call about the line between Freedom Fighter and Terrorist Dickbag, and them who decide a violent minority revolution is the answer are gambling on very poor odds of being exalted as the former over forgotten as the latter.

So when I see complaints about how the US Government is acting as a rogue power but that can't be substantiated by actual legal arguments or be buttressed by statistics, I see people who aren't getting what they want but who can't convince the rest of the population that they're right, and who cling to delusional beliefs that they represent a genuine military challenge to the World's Last Superpower.

What are the actual, tangible problems that need fixing? Who's lost liberty? Where's the enemy within?

I can sympathize with people who feel disenfranchised or ignored or trapped in a unnameable sense of dread and of things going wrong (*cough10-foldincreaseincampaigndonorcaps*cough*) but the man who picks up the gun to prove that His Might is His Right calls the bluff of two-hundred-million-people who don't agree with him, and who'll suffer for his folly when he's stuck in Gitmo 2.0 or planted in the dirt.
3  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: Today at 06:49:19 AM
Oh, and as long as we're handing out links:
Suicide and guns -yeah, that's a Havard header.
"The Accessibility of Firearms and Risk for Suicide and Homicide Victimization Among Household Members: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis."
Start from the bottom paragraph and read up to save yourself sanity.
Actually, IIRC, Puma's professor at a university down in Nevada, right? He don't need my advice.
Women's safety and firearms, some analysis and stats.
Here's my particular favorite:
"Women in the United States account for 84 percent of all female firearm victims in the developed world, even though they make up only a third of the developed world’s female population. And within American borders, women die at higher rates from suicide, homicide, and accidental firearm deaths in states where guns are more widely available. This is true even after controlling for factors such as urbanization, alcohol use, education, poverty, and divorce rates. "

Eighty-four-percent. Four out of 5 women who get shot to death in the modern world die in the USA, even though they're only 1 in 3 overall.
So if there are 900,000,000 women in the modern world 300,000,000 of them are Americans, but of those women killed by guns only 20% will be from that other 600,000,000 women.
Does that not amaze anyone else? Shocked

Oh and because "better a 911 in hand then a 9-1-1 operator on the phone" is a meme:
In another study, published in the American Journal of Public Health, researchers interviewed 417 women across 67 battered women’s shelters. Nearly a third of these women had lived in a household with a firearm. In two-thirds of the homes, their intimate partners had used the gun against them, usually threatening to kill (71.4%) them. A very small percentage of these women (7%) had used a gun successfully in self-defense, and primarily just to scare the attacking male partner away.

7%'s not a real inspiring number for arguing women's defense.
4  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: Today at 06:30:45 AM
When firearms can make the choice of pulling their own triggers, then they become the problem. Just like any tool, it takes on the characteristics and mannerisms of its wielder.

Yeah, sorry -good philosophical argument, but bullshit. Go ahead and trade your toothbrush for your sidearm, and see which one is more dangerous in your mouth.

I'm not saying "kill yourself" -I'd just say that if I meant it, but spend a second considering that swap. I bet you think it's a bad idea, and I bet why is because you are pretty sure that your sidearm is more dangerous then your toothbrush irrespective of what you intend. If your toothbrush goes rogue you might scratch your gums or choke on it.
If your gun does anything but remain utterly inert you'll be lucky to "merely" call 911 with a blown-out cheek.

I'm pretty sure we had the same conversation about Doctors a while back, and that while Doctors might unintentionally cause more deaths then firearms there's just no truth in believing that a gun is more useful for relieving head pain then a neurologist^.

Unless you're planning suicide.

Also when that poor 9-year-old girl shot and killed that instructor at that range was she intending to kill him? What are the "characteristics and mannerisms" of a Uzi wielded by a little girl doing target shooting?

Regarding Chicago's gun control laws, she was referring to the crossborder guns when she stated the murders were committed by guns owned by someone other than the perpetrator.
In regards to Afghanistan, she was referring to the war in the country. People in Chicago are dying by gunfire more often than people engaged in war in that country.
Low income neighborhoods are not specific to one racial identifier.

Chicago: she didn't say that. She referred to Chicago's attempts to control weapons locally, or else citing Chicago as a specific case has no meaning besides that illegal guns contribute when introduced from less controlled areas.
...which would negate her point about Chicago being specifically a case of firearms law control failure.
Chicago's laws effect Chicago's weapon's sales. Conflating that as failure with unaffected outside sources is without merit.

Afghanistan: still has almost nothing in common with any salient American example.
I got her point; it was just weak.
Afghanistan's not the Russian Front circa 1943, it's a country in which a small group is resisting a foreign presence with bombs and snipers and in quieter years the local sports are tribal violence and soccer.
It's murder rate is 6.5 per person and ~1,948 in 2012 compared to the US's 4.7/14,827.
We're also nearly ten times the size of that craphole, so that one particular city would have more deaths total but less per capita is no mystery.
Chicago's city population is 2.7 million, with about 10 million in the whole metro area. It, by itself, is a third the size of Afghanistan. No shit more people die there.

Chicago also a 32% Black city from which hailed our much-reviled Black President, A-Black-Obamination aka Blackenstein's Monster.
So you'll forgive me, or maybe you won't, if I think deliberately bringing up that "urban poor people do the most killing in That Black City" is a dog-whistle to the ...uh... dog-eared..? Grin

Interestingly enough, the Declaration of Independence not only "of the People, by the People, for the People", it also says the government shall do nothing without the consent of the governed.

Yes, true, I concur -do you have an example of it doing otherwise?
The 2nd Amendment is about the right of the citizens of this country to stand up against tyranny and repression within our government. Why? Because we had just finished fighting a war against the very same thing.

Actually no it was a concession demanded by the slave holding states to permit slave hunting patrols to be legally armed so they could capture runaways.

And that tyranny and repression was inflicted by a colonial power. I'm not seeing how that's a local form of fascism, especially not in a nation that just ejected said colonial power.
If you don't think that is going on now, then check out the overmilitarization of law enforcement that grown in the last 5-10 years, not to mention the Patriot Act (aka Repeal the 4th Amendment Act) or the National Defense Authorization Act (aka let's get rid of the 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendments). We'll see if Obama resigns the Patriot Act up for another 4 years like he did in 2011. He did sign the NDAA into place.

Now I'll understand if you don't read my posts, but trust me that I'm quite aware of, and agitated by, Police Militarization.
But again, point to this being done illegally.

I challenge you to watch both of these videos all the way through:

I think some people will find some clarity.

I will.
I sat through, and quite paid attention, to blondie's speech.
I can do those.
...unless they're just like 5 minutes of screaming white noise which would both make a liar out of me and be a rather cunning strike on your part.

^C'mon now, Desertpuma. We ain't pals, but I give you enough credit to believe that you recognize that a firearm, the modern evolution of modern history's most potent killing tool, is in fact inherently dangerous.

You didn't have a reply, but I honestly credit you with noticing how that stabbing at that rural Chinese school didn't produce any deaths in spite of it's frenzied nature. I'm pretty sure there are no comparable US school shootings in which 22 people were injured and nobody died.

Soldiers do not deploy into a warzone armed with pencils and Payday bars because convicts with grudges and nut allergies are also fatal. We didn't build nuclear-tipped ICBM's because they won a coin-flip between that and MIRV-dispensed irregularly manufactured gummi bears as the tools of MAD.

That's logic as basic as water is made up of a oxygen molecule bonded to two hydrogen*. You and MilitiaJim and anybody else can attribute the intent to kill on the wielder of a weapon, but nobody gets shot without a gun.

*if anyone doubted that Krensky is smarter then I am, they shouldn't.
5  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: Today at 05:39:42 AM

Lowest murder rates? Fewest guns.
Not a perfect correlation, but all those "socialist" European states blondie doubtless wouldn't be caught dead in (because they're so safe) have strict weapons control laws.

The USA clocks in behind Iran, Kosovo, Lebanon, and pre-civil war Syria for murder rates, btw.

In the interest of being honest there's an interesting piece here about how the UK doesn't classify any death they can't rule a suicide as a murder, and only count that as a murder it's accompanied by a conviction.

..which is actually more accurate because to claim a death's a murder demands proving intent. Criminal Negligence and Accidental Homicide are thingers, after all, but even with the author's suggested doubling of the UK homicide rate they're still a third of our own. And nowhere near Australia or Canada or The Netherlands or...
6  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: Today at 05:15:33 AM
Some schools in America do have firearms teams that compete. I offer evidence:

She blew them away with common sense.

Yeah, no she doesn't.

"Achieving stricter gun control laws would obliterate any opportunity I could've had to go to a decent college on a shooting scholarship."

Probably not actually, given that she's probably legally entitled (by virtue of not being a criminal) to own just about any weapon she can afford and that tacking on a background check, waiting period, DNA registration, and/or Oath of Fidelity to the Immortal God-Emperor would at most cost her additional time and registration fees.

"...the issue with gun violence around the nation: guns are not the problem."

Because people are actually shooting each other with those cake batter thingers and everyone's dying of deliciousness.

Anyone who can't have life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness without a firearm is a coward.

Chicago has strict gun control laws undermined by over-the-border weapons sales. This implication that weapons purchases occur within exclusive, discreet political boundaries is pathetically naive.

Chicago also has a population density that makes Afghanistan look like the backwater shithole it is and the Taliban don't stand-up fights any more.
And anyone who thinks Afghanistan is a model of modern gun control is fucking hallucinating.
Most of Afghanistan doesn't have potable water or sewer systems, never mind meaningful arms control legislation or even competent police for it's enforcement.

Yes, far more people are killed with handguns then rifles -and good fucking luck getting pistol control measures passed, but rifles are predominantly used in the mass shootings that so horrify everyone not dressed up clean and white for a prepared speech.

Ha ha, she doesn't know what Straw Sales are -but she's made it clear that her scholarship's riding on whether I can buy an AR-15 dammit!

Hey. How many people died in Chenpeng Village Primary School stabbing? Oh right -zero.

Obligatory race-baiting, check. Carry on.

On one hand we get "poor people shoot each other," and on the other "so they need guns to protect themselves."
Also didn't we just hear that guns aren't the problem? How can all those inner-city death statistics be at all accurate if they're using everyone's favorite violence placebo the harmless firearm? I bet they're hitting each other with them. Tongue

Invocation of "of The People, By The People, For The People" while pointedly ignoring the power of firearms lobbies, check.

"Taking away the people's right to bear arms is taking away the people's power in government."
Ah, there it is. The reminder that if We don't have guns We can't control Our government.

My reactions: Coda; please, oh please let's have our next Cliven Bundy soon. I'm well passed sick of hearing chicken-hawk cocksuckers talk about how badass they're gonna be when it's time to Fight The White House.

And is she going to enlist? Take that pretty face and those impressive shooting skills out to fight for those 2nd Amendment Rights she's so sure she can't live without?
Odds are 99/100 that she won't.

Edit: funny part is I don't oppose high schools having sport shooting for their students.
Can they do it safe? Yeah?
Coolio, go right ahead -it's a free country ...for now. Cry
7  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: Today at 12:59:14 AM
Hunting Rifle in Yearbook Portrait: Val says "yeah, that's reasonable."
8  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 20, 2014, 09:36:49 PM
So, the days march on:
NYC: 2 Cops killed in premeditated ambush.

"The shooter was identified by NYPD Police Commissioner Bill Bratton as 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley."

Nothing to say about this besides how I hope they catch the fucker, though that has to mean the right suspect and of course I bristle at the description "execution style."
Fuck you, and fuck your hyperbole. Just the news that two cops were ambushed and murdered isn't enough?

"Wait, isn't that shallow and PC of you Val to get so worked up about a turn of phrase?"

Yes, and the next story is why. Angry

NYPD Officer Filmed Beating 12-Year-Old Boy.

So in this month's The Nation I read the stat that 42% of all Cop-Killers identified are African-American.
The Nation's as Left as reputable publications get, so I'm not going to pretend that I am skeptical about that claim, but between that stat and the above two headlines my moral stance defaults to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: everybody's wrong, but I can't say I don't understand the mutual rage.

Re: The South. Thanks for the input. I'll have something to say in return eventually, but for now know I am grateful.
9  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 20, 2014, 03:12:52 AM
One cannot blame "4chan" or any major group on the issue, anymore than someone can blame "Hollywood" for making bad movies;

It should be noted that 4chan, while still home to a metric load of toxic jerks, has recently undergone something of a Damascan conversion thanks to its god/chief mod Moot. He purged a lot of the old guard sub-mods and seems to be attempting to stear a more centrist course for the culture of the boards.

One cannot blame "4chan" or any major group on the issue, anymore than someone can blame "Hollywood" for making bad movies;

Anonymous formed out of 4Chan, and they are equal parts organized and effective.

And Moots is remarkably reasonable people.
I've met him; he's not nearly the /b/tard I/we expected.
10  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 20, 2014, 12:57:16 AM
Dems: it's time to dump Dixie.
I decidedly disagree with the ultimate conclusions, but I can't dispute the logic.
Well...I'm sure plenty of folks want to re-fight the Civil War. Tongue
Hey, maybe if we do we can nuke ourselves.
Yeah. That'll show us.

Actually on the first story there's a topic that might be worth mentally chewing over: why not let the South go?
If separation's really so potentially in demand why not and what follows?

The article is rather condescending in places.  Not that I'm shocked but it's still disappointing.  Um, huh.  I don't really know.  Some folks would be overjoyed.  I would be sad despite currently living in the south.  I think Texas could make a go of it as an independent country.  the old Confederacy minus Florida?  Doubtful.

As to the why of not letting the South go: same reason Lincoln didn't let the South go.  The US won't brook another nation on the bulk of the North American continent.  Too many security and foreign relations issues.

Now, in a ALT-history kind of thing (but looking toward the future), who knows. 

Respected, sure.

My gut attitude is generally "Let Them Go," and not strictly towards the South.
Cases like Chechnya and Palestine and the Spanish Basques?
Might be worth it.
I'm willing to argue that the path to a "Better World" might lie in letting some of the bitterest old ethnic but geographically consistent (err, who having a where as opposed to an idea) divides could be best resolved long-term by just letting them have their way.
I don't see Israel as having any other choice, I don't think Russia's mega-autocracy model's going to really last forever, and ...actually I don't really know what the Basque situation is anymore. My gut reaction is that things there are quiet, except that the Spanish national economy is apparently in the crapper, and financial woes are a reliable destabilizer.

My ongoing question about the cultural resilience of the Confederate South remains "why does this endure?"
I think I have my answers, but I don't think I've ever heard it directly from a ground-level believer.

I'll admit I just see it as a bad idea, but I'm enough of some mix of cosmopolitan and chauvinistic to assume that things work out best when everyone chills out and takes the best from their neighbors while ignoring the rest.
FWIW I've got kin in Georgia and Northern Florida, and those places would be pretty damn quick to go if they could -South Florida is far more Gulf Coast and Caribbean then either Yankee of Condfederate, amusingly enough. If the South did indeed Rise Again Florida could go half Confederate and half Seeya Later.
11  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 20, 2014, 12:45:12 AM
Which, of course, is why we carpet bombed England in 2006.

I hold dubbaya is seething contempt and I still would have been outraged if I'd heard about it at the time.

Not cool is not cool.

Fill me in?
12  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 20, 2014, 12:44:00 AM
In all seriousness, infrastructure is important and often gets neglected.  It's always sexier to spend money on new things than spend it fixing the older but still functional things.

As for the Sony thing.  Yeah, it's annoying that they caved to the hackers but by the same token, you have to wonder why they thought it would be a good idea in the first place.

I mean, if you wanted to deface a church (or other place of worship) in film, you can.  If you think that it will sell tickets in the Bible belt, or Saudi Arabia, you are probably mistaken.

I think it's mostly the surprise factor of the hacking.
North Korea's stereotyped as being so radically backward that nobody at Sony had guessed that there could be any material backlash against the project.

Also NK likes to use threats of annihilating South Korea and finding ways to perform a nuclear strike on the US or it's allies as a way of camouflaging it's pleas for famine relief money/oil sales, so I can buy that guessing that they'd do on any given topic's kind of a crap-shoot.

Personally NK's one of my few "kill these dumb fucks ASAP" moments of true neo-liberal interventionist blood-lust.

I think taking a rogue nuclear power off the map quick and hard's just plain a worthwhile idea, even as I sympathize with families split between the two who're (semi)patiently waiting for this North/South crap to finally cool down to the point where they can embrace their loved ones again.

As always the two are playing pieces in the games of far weightier politics.
13  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 20, 2014, 12:36:04 AM
I'd have to look back, but it was a minor scandal when it happened.

Anyway, I'm off of this topic. I don't want to sound like a crazy person and get myself thrown in the 'always ignore' bin of posters.  Roll Eyes

What else is in the news... bleh. It's times like these that I wish that I didn't have Windows 8, so that I didn't get lost as to where the news is as opposed to where my e-mails are.

Hey, understood. Smiley
You're kind of doing me a favor, I had started to feel like I was trying to hard to pressure a point without being reasonable about it all.

My point is that memes like Feminists Hate All Men breed fast and spread faster and that, ignoring my comment about Jack Thompson's gender, their basic ideas are not unreasonable.

The other thing is that consider the Kluwe/Sarkeesian distinctions drawn below.
They're both classified as bullies, ignoring any basis for that judgement, but the general GG'er reaction is two-fold.
1) "Anita Sarkeesian is a bully and I oppose her".
2) "Chris Kluwe is a bully and I won't oppose him."

There is a clear distinction in the level of involvement: Sarkeesian is the head of her particular culture wave and Kluwe was rage-venting in a blog not normally real concerned with gender politics in video gaming, but why would the active core of the GG movement be especially rancorous towards the women who support FF and not men like Kluwe?

I admit I'm being lazy in not chasing down the specifics of what happened to the other women supporting FF who were targeted -though sadly it's a safe bet that it did happen, but I suggest contemplating this apparent conundrum: why that distinction? Huh?

Anyway, that's all. Anyone else who wants to engage is welcome, of course.
14  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 19, 2014, 09:38:07 PM
But you can't present a specific example?
Just one.

Also, Anita's a bully? Where?
15  Community / Off-Topic / Re: Life, the World, and Everything. (Social Issues) on: December 19, 2014, 09:03:20 PM
Also, Jack Thompson's a man. That matters.

I was fine until you said this. The point of feminism, REAL feminism and not the Americanized and bastardized version that hates men, is that it SHOULDN'T matter whether someone is a man or a woman.

I wasn't making any political claim. That's a statement about reality, that's the truth.
It's sort of like Morg and Krensky's back and forth: the clash between principle and reality; as a matter of principle I agree with you, but the reality is very different.
For example, women who take Sarkeensian's side also get threatened and harassed and have their contact info/addresses/etc broadcasted publicly without their permission.

Who doesn't?
Chris Kluwe and he lands on Gamer Gaters with a contempt unfiltered by ...anything, really.

Edit: link updated, should work now.

Also "feminism hates men"?
Got an example in the philosophy to show?
I've met feminists who hate men, and I've also read about the 1 guy in "Jews For Hitler," so there is a useful distinction between the creed and it's members to be recognized.
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