I've been hesitant to do that without permission from the Crafty guys, also I think there's probably some benefit to a given GM deciding which origins he wants available for fast-play characters.

Mainly the issue for me is time.

Give me a refresher. What's the potential concern here?

Likely the fact that it would be printing large chunks of game mechanics from the books on printable cards.

[^]

@Gentry:  You would have to house-rule the cash. 

I know it has been discussed in other threads as well, but the 100s/Lv is really very low for a high fantasy scenario like Pathfinder.

For this exercise, there are only a few options.
1) In many cases you just have allow free starting based on the background of the character.
2) Be more creative in the interpretation of the art. For instance you could make the argument that what Valeros is wearing is Hardened Leather Cuirass with Light Fittings.
3) I would also likely apply the Crude materials quality to lower costs (and would be more fitting to a level 1 character in FC).
4) Make starting silver a lot higher to make them more true Pathfinder characters than FC. ^


The lowest costs for base gear would be 193s.
* Crude Partial Hardened Leather (Cuirass) with Light Fittings = 98s
* Crude Longsword = 45s
* Crude Shortsword = 19s
* Crude Reflex Bow = 23s
* Crude Standard Arrows = 8s


However, since the backstory states that he has worked for dozens of employers as a mercenary, I think that the FC starting silver rules are out or synch. At the very least I would probably give the character at least the Longsword for free (to indicate the former employment and experience of the backstory), and do this for the higher campaign economy feel of Pathfinder:

* Starting Silver = 200s/Lv + Income
* Partial Hardened Leather (Cuirass) with Light Fittings = 130s
* Longsword = Free
* Shortsword = 25s
* Reflex Bow = 30s
* Standard Arrows = 10s
* Bedroll = 5s
(Total starting silver spent = 200s, leaving his Income as the only pocket cash, thus making him in need of work.)


As for the Paladin, I'm not sure what you plan on for build, but I would say that you will also have to get very rules creative. In this case, I would say the armor has to be either a bestowed gift of the church or even better, on-loan from the church. It is the only way I can see a starting character with access to even crude plate. The on-loan option also gives an in-game hook. If the Paladin "sways" from the church orders, they reclaim their gear.


^: For my campaign's economy level, I use a sliding scale as follows, depending on the kind of game the group wants to play.
* 50s/Lv + Income = Poverty
* 100s/Lv + Income = Poor
* 150s/Lv + Income = Common
* 200s/Lv + Income = Wealthy

Personally, I'd love to see someone really tackle a "pre-printed" sandbox like this. Most pre-written adventures too railroad to work well for more than a simple one-off game, not so much in an ongoing Campaign game.  Also, speaking as an adult gamer, I just don't have the time I used to have to pour into putting together my own sandbox environments anymore. Having a decent list of plot-hooks spread all over a region for PCs to 'stumble' on doesn't come easy anymore.  The idea of having such a sandbox, mimicing as you have the Dragon Age scenario would be interesting.  Rather than the standard railroad, follow this plot adventure path it would be much more like the old 'pick-a-path' adventuring. Its an interesting idea, if not what I see to be a Whole LOT of work.

YES!  This is a great project, especially for bringing in Pathfinder/3E players to a FC game and mindset.  This fits in well with the FC Iconics as great "conversion" examples of some of the classic archetypes.

What you're describing, and what you and Khaalis suggest - breaking shapeshifting up via type - is trivial, and doesn't even really require a rule IMO. That said, these things are sometimes received best as campaign qualities, if only so folks feel empowered by an "official house rule."

Will consider further, but even without embellishment this is eminently doable.

Excellent. This gives me the vague idea that the new polymorph line will already be something along this line in its basic form/function. As it stands, if it is generic enough in function, you would only need 1 Spell (and its iterations if it is multilevel: I-II-III etc.). Then you could have it both ways, somewhat D&D style where the spell allows you to take any form within the functional limits of the spells (likely XP build) or as you said, you could apply as many campaign qualities to restrict the spell as you like. You could simply break it out by type or be more specific such as only those with the Druid specialty can take animal form. This could even go so far as to cover "Disguise self" and "Alter Self" types of spells, simply being Polymorph (folk).

I'll definitely be interested to see where you go with it.

What I have envisioned for most shapechanging is something like this:

A small series of  spells that increment in power upwards, likely over 3 levels, making a I-III series like Wildside. From there, break the spells out into various spells by types of forms that can be shared under the same umbrella of abilities such as Animal Shape, Beast Shape, etc.  For instance Animal Shape I-III would let you assume the shape of any "animal" type creature of up to a certain XP value. so for instance Animal Shape I would allow shifting into a small normal basic animal like a bird, fish, dog, etc. and then getting larger/more powerful at spells II & III.  

I'll be interested to see what the Crafty guys have done with it.

[Edit] In response to theCimmerian, while I can see the desire to limit the old D&D Polymorph Self, I think one spell per shape is simply too much. As Pat mentioned, that could/would almost require a sourcebook unto itself just to print that many spells. I think basic categorizations is the better way to go. It could be as simple as a separation between say Animals, Beasts, Folk, etc. It could however be broken out differently such as combining animal and beast but breaking it out based on role of the form such as aquatic, aerial, predator, etc. Obviously there would also have to be a way to limit what kinds of powers can be gained as well so that you don't get someone turning into a troll for the same cost as turning into say an elf.

Problem is that some people chose to straightjacket themselves when they did not have to...

Which I basically blame on the authors. If you are going to base the system on the 9-alignments matrix, they need to do a much better job of explaining what those alignments really mean, how they can be played, etc. than they have in the past. JMHO, though I personally haven't used that form of alignment even in D&D in more years than I care to count. I prefer defined personality traits. Even in FC, alignments are only used for that which the PC is Truly devout in their devotion to whether it be a region, a code of honor, an oath to organization, etc. /shrug  I really don't understand the vehemence in the war about D&D sub-components like Alignment.  People seem to forget the most simple rules of all - Rule 0.

Uh, yeah. Moving on...

Hai!  My sentiments exactly. If they ARE going to rekindle D&D, they NEED to modernize the thinking. Unfortunately from what I'm seeing, if there are really THAT many people who LIKE D&D alignments, I'll never need to look at going back.

Are those mutually exclusive approaches? Seems like it from your post but I can't tell for sure.

Exclusive and is referring to the D&D 9 Alignment system. . Kind of like the Edition war, its the old Alignment war all over again. I believe this is the post being referred to:
The_Importance_of_Alignments_whether_you_realize_it_or_not

It would appear that most people don't even know there is a different way to do alignments other than the choice of D&D style or no alignment at all.

I've never been a big fan of illogically sprawling dungeons, especially not if I have a whole city to work with. Rooftop battles, sewer trudges, chases through crowded markets, etc -- places where the local color is actually colorful

Thumbs up to this!  Who the hell makes an underground complex of rooms and stocks each one with a different monster? Bleh.

Some additional questions:

Battle Maps and PDF-only format -- Since such a product would rely on the consumer choosing to print or not print given aids, and would likely be limited to standard home/office printers sized paper...
a) Would a "Tiled" battle map (multiple 8.5x11 pages with 1"x1" battle map format that can be arranged to reflect a much larger map) be something useful for people?

Yes, tiled maps would be amazing. Normally I have to take an image, port it to something like Word or Excel, make the image squares match to a 1" rule, then print so its broken out correctly by page. Having most of that already done would be great.

b) Since the consumer is doing the printing (and incurring any additional printing costs), should those battle maps make use of color or emphasize ease of printing on a B&W printer? Should they use color sparingly?

As stated before, doing them in color and in grey-scale would be most optimal and make the product more worthwhile for a larger audience.

c) Would a single "encounter overview" map showing the placement of individual tile sheets be more trouble than it is worth? Would such a map be better targeted toward "public" view or for GM-only view?

I would think not. Since you would have to start with the primary "single" map anyway, including it as a DM-only view in the module would be great for the DM, especially if you are going to get into the true difference between DM and player maps. The DM map shows all of the things like traps, secret doors etc. but the player "tiles" don't.

Generic vs Specific -- It seems like there's tension between a desire for modular skeletons that can get dropped into any setting or campaign vs something with intricate twists and "deep-dive" coherency.
"I absolutely love the boxed campaigns that AEG produced like Freiburg, Ryoko Owari, and Otosan Uchi."
To me, those seem like exhibits X -- XX for a geographically-organized campaign space but at the same time, I worry about how to build such a self-contained beast without also imposing overmuch on whatever campaign it gets dropped into. Thoughts on finding the happy medium?

Personally, I don't see a "boxed set" as a module, but as a self-sustaining Campaign. Creating a Campaign set and creating modules, IMHO, are two entirely different beasts.

Handouts -- How much is too much? Using FantasyCraft's emphasis on "Clues" -- would sheets of "clues" formatted to print on sheets of 3x5 cards be over the top? When is "something for the players to hold in their hands" a neat addition and when is it burdensome?

Never too much. Especially in a PDF where there is no real page real estate. The more you can give a GM to make their life and prep work easier the better IMHO.  If you include Clue Cards, that's clue cards I don't have to dig through the material to determine what there should be and then hand type/write on my own. I know in our group visual aids always help immersion, and player aids are always good.  Same reason I assign "action dice" as a poker chips - a visual player aid to remind them of the available resource.

Content, content, content.

Personally an adventure "sells" me by its content. The theme and feel of the adventure. What's the hook? What's the plot? Will this plot intrigue my players? Does it have a twist that isn't just another cookie cutter plot outline?  Will the adventure fit easily into any campaign with Minimal effort or does it require a specific setting?  I prefer adaptive adventures. A skeleton that can be dropped into any game.  For example if it says the basics are that the King's daughter is kidnapped by a rival and the job is retrieval, I prefer adventures where it is specifically kept generic rather than being based on say the last 100 years' history of Hooksdale and the order of the Hooksdale's Light - some regional specific only religion and deity, etc.

Aside from that comes production quality. How good are the maps? Can they be used as-is as battle maps? Are there player handouts or suggestions for related props? How well does the plot flow? Is there room for expansion and side story or is it a railroad show?

In general, I prefer either small one-off setting-generic adventures that can easily be dropped into a campaign as I have need for them (ex: Paizo's "Carnival of Tears") or a specific campaign core like D&D's "Against the Giants" or Paizo's adventure paths (ex: Curse of the Crimson Throne).

Is anyone allowed to share basic info about the pre-order previewed material? Not exact text but a summary of the class that makes it different from the mage? I haven't seen anything like this. (Yes unfortunately I missed the preorder date.)

[Life Squeeze:]

Ok, here are a few opinion thoughts and rough ideas from someone still learning the system myself.


Glamour: I'm pretty not sure this is exactly what you are looking for but to me the standard Fey Glamour is all about style. For this type of fey species ability I'd go with the following on top of the standard Appearance bonus.

a) "You are considered to have 2 additional Style feats for any ability based on the number of Style feats you have."
- This really only effects 3 feats - Personal Lieutenant and Repartee Basics/Mastery. Thus I'd cost it low at 0.5 value.

b) "You gain 1 temporary Style feat that lasts until the end of the adventure. However, this feat can be negated by Counter Magic, True Seeing and Anti-Magic Field."
- I'd cost this out at a value of 1.


Non-Persistent Origin Abilities: Personally, I would be very wary of this line of thought. For instance the "retractable claws" I would still consider Claw I because they can still be used at will. The only ways I would chance that are ..
a) Being retractable is actually a benefit, granting an automatically Stashed weapon, which should increase the cost, not lower it.
b) I would only lower the cost of a standard Claw I to a 0.5 value if there was a decent restriction on the use of the claws, such as only when using a specific Stance, or even something like a 1/day limit.

I wouldn't do Transmogrification via a species option, but via a species feat and grant the feat. This is what I've done with a few shapeshifters in my homebrew, but the mechanics will likely change once Spellbound finally drops.


Life Drain: Not sure where to go with this. The simplest answer is just give them the extra trick. The hard answer would be to make this a supernatural extraordinary attack.

Life Squeeze: You gain a life draining Squeeze I extraordinary supernatural attack (1d10/20; DC 10; Life Draining I)
Build Value = Natural Attack values are 1/2 the NPC XP value
* Squeeze I (2XP) + Life Draining I (3 XP) + Supernatural to trigger off Squeeze (2XP)
Build Value = 3.5


Gaze Attack: This is likely most easily done as conversion from NPC attacks, if as I think, you meant Rock Clutch's Gaze. If we try to build that through normal rules...
* Stress Gaze: Standard Ranged Extraordinary Damaging Attack II (2d6/19-20; REF DC 10 for 1/2 damage) @ 4 XP + Gaze Attack @ 3 XP = 7 XP or 3.5 Value. I also think that changing from Lethal to Stress damage increases the cost by probably another 1-1.5 value for 4.5 to 5 total.

Then the rest of the package applies a -2.5 value adjustment making it a total of a 2-2.5 point feat.
* -1 value for the -2 DEX penalty
* -1.5 value for Reviled -10 penalty


Poison: Another conversion from NPC attacks. It’s a standard Natural Attack at 2XP per grade + 2XP for Venomous. Thus a standard Venomous Claw I would be 4XP or 2 built point value. If you wanted to do more, it transfers to an Extraordinary attack. For example...
Ghoul Touch:
* Damaging Extraordinary Attack I (1d6/20) @ 2XP
* Venomous (transmits poison) @ 2XP
* Paralyzing (Will DC 10 or paralyzed for 1d6 rounds) @ 4 XP
Total Value = 8 XP = 4 build points


Damage Resistance: I'd go off the one we know which is Stress Resistance. This is a value of 1 for Stress Resistance 4. Sterner Stuff (-4 to Keen) is also 1 point, so I would think it safe to say that any X Resistance 4 = 1 point.


Size Alteration: As with transformation, I would grant this via a species feat granted as a bonus feat. Again, I'd probably wait for Spellbound to see how they handle this effect.

{edit} Ignore this post. I forgot that Miracles was a separate quality.

[Example:]

I haven't come up with anything generic, since as stated not everyone would use such a system as it can be very bookkeeping heavy. I do however use something similar in my homebrew world. It is basically something you just need to define for your campaign world and make sure it flies with your players.

In my world I use a few new house rules.

1) I use Primary and Secondary Renown tracks.
"When acquiring Renown, points are spent to acquire ranks in a Primary Renown Track and then assigned to a chosen Secondary Renown Track within that Primary Track. Within each primary renown track there may be many secondary renown tracks based on the region and campaign specific groups involved."

Example: You purchase 1 Rank in the Primary Renown Track - Military for 30 Reputation. You then specify which Secondary Renown Track you actually have the renown with (e.g Infantry, Cavalry, Navy, etc.). So it would be denoted like "Renown: Military/Cavalry 1".

Renown Benefits are broken out as follows:

Effects of Renown (FC p187):
   Total Renown
o   Keeping Prizes
o   Recognition & Reaction – Checks made by NPCs of the same Primary Renown track gain a +2 bonus and those of the same Secondary Renown track gain a +5 bonus.
o   Purchasing Prizes – The Maximum Reputation Cost the character is able to spend is based on total renown.
o   Purchasing Prizes – Contacts
o   Purchasing Prizes – Holdings
o   Purchasing Prizes – Magic Items

   Primary  Renown Track
o   Calling In Favors
o   Purchasing Prizes – Favors

   Secondary  Renown Track
o   Title
o   Renown Benefit
o   Purchasing Prizes – Command (See later in this Chapter)


2) I also use a Primary Renown Track - Infamy.
"This is a new class of Renown that effectively acts like a form of Negative Renown. Infamy can be purchased if one wishes to be infamous, but it is more often Imposed as a consequence to achieved Renown in other areas. Infamy can be applied to any Primary or Secondary renown track."


3) This leads to the fact that I use Morgenstern's submission about gaining small bonuses at each odd Renown level. I also use Morgenstern's Command prize.


Some Examples of secondary renown tracks:

Examples of Heroic Renown Tracks: Nation X Social Castes: Exalted, Honored & Notable, Vassals, Unclean & Enemies
Examples of Military Renown Tracks: Nation X Ruler's Elite Guard, Nation X Air Guard, Nation X Navy, Nation X Guard, Nation X City Watch, Nation X Sub-Region Militia, etc.
Regional Power Organization Renown Tracks: Military/Mercenary Company X, Noble/Imperial Society of Magic, Region X's Underworld Organization, The Mercantile Guild, etc.

Example of Secondary Benefits:

Nation X Noble/Noble House:
Rank 3: Title = Vicarius; Benefit = You gain the Extra Holding feat, or may modify an existing Holding by the same Reputation amount.

Nation X Military/Cavalry:
Rank 3: Title = Cavalry Centurion; Benefit = You gain a 20% discount when purchasing mounts and mount-related gear (if you already possess a discount with these purchases, it increases by 5%).