Crafty Games Forum

Community => License to Improvise => Topic started by: paddyfool on February 08, 2012, 02:54:01 AM

Title: Full plate ideas
Post by: paddyfool on February 08, 2012, 02:54:01 AM
I'd like to suggest options to make plate and articulated plate more tempting gear choices in settings where they'd either be fairly ubiquitous or settings where they'd be the outstanding choice for those who can afford them.  This is particularly based on debate where under the standard options they seem to lose out to hardened leather or chainmail as a practical adventurer's choice. (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5280.0)  With this in mind, how would these work as optional campaign qualities to pick and choose from, do you think?

Cheap plate (permanent): The price of full plate and articulated plate is halved.

Better plate  I (permanent): The DR of full plate and articulated plate increases by 1.

Better plate II (permanent): The DR of full plate and articulated plate increases by 1, and their DP reduces by 1 (minimum 0).

Faraday suit (permanent): Full plate and articulated plate gain electricity resistance 4.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: MilitiaJim on February 08, 2012, 06:51:41 AM
Adventurers don't wear full plate for the same reason beat cops don't wear Interceptor armor with SAPI plates:  The extra protection isn't worth the trouble.  (Needing a battle buddy to armor up is a pain.)

That said, the Faraday cage upgrade sounds cool, and can have some good utility.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: paddyfool on February 08, 2012, 07:56:32 AM
Adventurers don't wear full plate for the same reason beat cops don't wear Interceptor armor with SAPI plates:  The extra protection isn't worth the trouble.  (Needing a battle buddy to armor up is a pain.)

True that, yet the trope of heroes in full plate charging around dungeons is pretty common in the fantasy fiction world, and it wouldn't hurt to have an option to make it more mechanically tempting if that's the feel you're going for.  (If not to the extent of 4e D&D, where in my limited experience it's a no-brainer option for tanks from level 1 onwards).

Quote
That said, the Faraday cage upgrade sounds cool, and can have some good utility.

Cool it certainly is: (http://www.tb3.com/tesla/ch2007/images/index.html)
Spoiler: A demonstration of cool • show
(http://www.tb3.com/tesla/ch2007/images/JL_5695.jpg)


The fact that full plate (or any full body metal armour which touches the ground) should act at least partially as a kind of Faraday Suit has vaguely bugged me for quite a while visavis the fantasy trope of "lightning goes right through armour".  But I do recognise that that is certainly a mainstream trope, perhaps even the mainstream trope, so this mini-quality may well not suit all gamers.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: pawsplay on February 09, 2012, 12:56:52 AM
I've been looking at ways of getting plate armor to characters who start the game at low to medium levels... at level 1 or 3, it's way easier to just take a magic item with the lowest Reputation cost you can find and base it on a suit of plate, than to actually try to acquire plate with silver.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: paddyfool on February 09, 2012, 03:48:16 AM
True that.  When I first considered that option, I had the feeling that it was sort-of cheating to spend a little reputation and get gear worth lots of silver for free (and that it would be better to have, say, a gem or tabard of armour enhancement be the magic item itself rather than enchanted armour). 

But the real cost, of course, comes in the fact that it occupies a prize slot... I suppose it's another big YMMV point (if I did allow it, I'd want them to spend at least 10 Rep, and I'd definitely want some kind of cost or complexity cap on upgrades).
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Ry74 on February 09, 2012, 04:21:35 AM
Another thing is that full plate should probably also have some degree of edged resistance- it was not at all easy to get through those things with swords.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Mister Andersen on February 09, 2012, 06:43:02 AM
RAW, you can't actually purchase anything worth rep until you have at least 1 rank in Renown, given the cap on purchases is 10 x total Renown.

But Plate as a Rep-only item/Prize actually makes a lot of sense: that stuff was generally speaking the province of the upper classes and their elite minions.

Making it part of a specialty is probably also a good way of handling it -- 3 pts, grants a prize that doesn't count towards your total, 15 rep points of benefit + something else...
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: glimmerrat on February 09, 2012, 06:51:55 AM
That's why the Battle of Agincourt seemed to be so devastating for the French. They only recorded slain gentry.

Since most of the English dead were commoners, no biggie. 150 dead Knights.

However, the French dead totalled up to between 7 and 10 thousand; the Men-at-Arms were butchered thanks to their heavy plate weighing them down in the mud, and since they included many minor nobles, the casualty figures were just shocking. Just goes to show that even in the era in which it was used, it wasn't really that useful...

Doubtless someone will come along and contradict me now.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: paddyfool on February 09, 2012, 08:12:11 AM
Ah, Agincourt.  Nicely controversial - was it 36,000 French against 6,000 English, or 12,000 French against 9,000 English?  That the French had cavalry and (a few) early cannon whereas the English did not is well agreed upon, and that the French had heavier armour (which may have cost them, according to the rain and mud theory) but what exactly went on is a bit woolly.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Krensky on February 09, 2012, 09:25:47 AM
But what's not controversial is that it's all been down hill from there for the French militarily. ;)
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Agent 333 on February 09, 2012, 12:47:50 PM
But what's not controversial is that it's all been down hill from there for the French militarily. ;)

Excuse me, good sir, I believe you are forgetting one Napoleon Boneparte.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Blankbeard on February 09, 2012, 12:58:17 PM
Maybe this is a situation where stealing from Spycraft/SG-1 is in order.  Give them their choice of equipment bundles.

Penniless Knight
Crude platemail moderate armor
Hide shield
One proficient melee weapon
Fine tunic and pants, old, worn, and poorly patched
A bridle from a long lost mount
A large sack, waterskin, 2 days rations

Deerslayer
Partial leather or padded armor
One proficient bow
30 standard arrows, 5 barbed, 5 flaming, and 5 bird arrows
Hand axe and one proficient knife
Common clothes and good boots
Bedroll, canteen, 7 days rations, 2 hearty meals from last kill
Craft:Carving kit and a handful of carved antler figurines (20 sp if sold)

And such


Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Krensky on February 09, 2012, 03:29:54 PM
But what's not controversial is that it's all been down hill from there for the French militarily. ;)

Excuse me, good sir, I believe you are forgetting one Napoleon Boneparte.

Corsican.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Agent 333 on February 09, 2012, 04:08:54 PM
But what's not controversial is that it's all been down hill from there for the French militarily. ;)

Excuse me, good sir, I believe you are forgetting one Napoleon Boneparte.

Corsican.

One man does not an army make. Most of the soldiers in Napoleon's army were pure blooded French. Plus, Corsica is a French territory, so that argument is invalid  :P.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: foproy on February 09, 2012, 05:26:42 PM
But what's not controversial is that it's all been down hill from there for the French militarily. ;)

Excuse me, good sir, I believe you are forgetting one Napoleon Boneparte.

Corsican.
One man does not an army make. Most of the soldiers in Napoleon's army were pure blooded French. Plus, Corsica is a French territory, so that argument is invalid  :P.
Waterloo? though i gues the same can be said for that kind of expansionism from anyone
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: glimmerrat on February 10, 2012, 12:57:21 AM
Excuse me, good sir, I believe you are forgetting one Napoleon Boneparte.

*coughwaterloocough*
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: paddyfool on February 10, 2012, 12:58:45 AM
One man does not an army make. Most of the soldiers in Napoleon's army were pure blooded French. Plus, Corsica is a French territory, so that argument is invalid  :P.

In addition to Waterloo, Trafalgar, and the Spanish campaign, Napoleon led the French army to one of the most catastrophic defeats in their history - leading half a million men into Russia kitted out for a summer campaign alone, and bringing home only 10,000, as depicted here:

Spoiler: show

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Minard.png/1000px-Minard.png)


Whatever his successes, his ambition ultimately led to his own destruction.  (Like other emperors before him, his overconfidence was his weakness ;).)
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Krensky on February 10, 2012, 01:05:13 AM
Not to mention the Luisiana Purchase and putting his idiot relative in charge of Mexico.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: glimmerrat on February 10, 2012, 01:07:53 AM
Not to mention the Luisiana Purchase and putting his idiot relative in charge of Mexico.

Monarchy or Republic, nepotism always seems to be an issue in France, and my first (serious) GF was French...  :-\
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Agent 333 on February 10, 2012, 08:34:06 AM
The point wasn't that he was eventually defeated, which he obviously was, just that the French Military went uphill from Agincourt, at least for a little while.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: foproy on February 10, 2012, 10:24:43 AM
even the Cleavland browns have been known to win a game or two.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: Mister Andersen on February 10, 2012, 10:53:23 AM
A broken clock is still correct twice a day.  ;D
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: SilvercatMoonpaw on February 10, 2012, 01:55:06 PM
A broken clock is still correct twice a day.  ;D
Unless it's a 24 hour clock, then it's only right once a day.

Or it's digital, then it's never right.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: foproy on February 10, 2012, 02:29:37 PM
most analog 24 hour clocks still only have 12 hour places, and each place represents 2 different hours, 1 and 13, 2 and 14.....
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: pawsplay on February 14, 2012, 02:27:46 AM
Excuse me, good sir, I believe you are forgetting one Napoleon Boneparte.

*coughwaterloocough*

Napoleon nearly won Waterloo; Wellington himself called it a near thing. Were it not for some chance alignments, including the timely arrival of the Prussians, Napoloeon would have crushed his opposition before they even formed.
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: glimmerrat on February 14, 2012, 02:45:19 AM
Napoleon nearly won Waterloo; Wellington himself called it a near thing.

Doesn't matter if you lose by an inch or a mile. He still lost.  ;)
Title: Re: Full plate ideas
Post by: paddyfool on February 14, 2012, 05:57:53 AM
Doesn't matter if you lose by an inch or a mile. He still lost.  ;)

And Napoleon lost badly at that, taking roughly double the casualties of his opponent (48,000:24,000 according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Waterloo)), despite having nearly double the artillery, many times the cavalry, and above all seasoned veterans on his side against a motley mixture of largely inexperienced troops on Wellington's (who, perhaps a little self-servingly described his own forces as "an infamous army, very weak and ill-equipped, and a very inexperienced Staff").

But all this is besides the point - back to armour options.  What do you reckon to the (ab)use of riding mechanics to represent very special armour in this thread (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6116.0)?