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Community => License to Improvise => Topic started by: aegis on August 23, 2010, 01:50:35 AM

Title: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 23, 2010, 01:50:35 AM
OK, I've made decent progresses in my Rokugan from L5R to FC conversion.

Campaign qualities are almost all chosen. No sorcery, all miracles, and a new taint quality. I'm still thinking on how to introduce Honor to the thing, though.

The longest part of the work is done, with Clans shortly described and Classes associated with each of them. There is also a short selection of feats for each school. I've only done this for the Great Clans, though, and this leaves all the Minor Clans, the Imperial families, the Shinsei Brotherhood, the Ronins, and the Shadowlands.

Interests are basically done, with only 2 Alignments (the Kami and Fu Leng), all the other variations belonging to either of these. Languages and Studies covered too.

Next, feats. I've re-used many of the dueling preview feats, together with some new ones. And consequently, dueling rules appear in the combat section, with personal strategies since there was none presented in the preview. I'll update delete this part as soon as the official dueling rules are published. Among other feats, there are some related to the Shadowlands, and certainly a handful of shugenja-specific feats.

Gear should follow, with restriction to the feudal era. I do not plan many things here, but I do hope to create some Clan craftsmanship for weapons and/or armor. Or by family, I don't know. Either one for each Great Clan, but if that's too much, maybe just a few related to families who have a crafting history. That should be easy anyways.

I don't think I'll introduce Foes in this document. I do wish to make also a bestiary and a rogue gallery, but most certainly as a separate GM-designed document. To save place, basically. Among other things, I will introduce at least one new Taint-related NPC quality.

I'll post the document at the current advancement point soon. If you're interested and would like to help, here is what I haven't done yet and would gladly like help with:

Feedback. Welcome. As always. :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 23, 2010, 05:03:07 AM
Hihi, here's what I came up with for armor and weapon craftsmanship during my lunch break. Most are copy-paste of existing craftsmanship upgrades, but there are a few new ones. Feedback welcome. :)

Clan-upgraded armor and weapons are not likely to be found in the hands of an outsider. If one were to be "found" unattended, it would be dishonorable not to return it to its rightful Clan. Sometimes, though, they are offered to honorable samurai as invaluable presents or rewards.

Armor Upgrades
Crab: +2 damage (unarmed/grapple); Disguise -4; Comp +2; Cost +50%
Crane: ACP +1; Speed +5 ft.; Comp +5; Weight -50%; Cost +200%
Dragon: Spell Damage Resistance 4; Cost +50%
Lion: +2 gear bonus with Intimidation; Cost +50%
Mantis: Falling Resistance 2, +2 gear bonus with Sneak in 1 terrain; Comp +2; Cost +50%
Phoenix: DR +1; Const +1 save; Comp +5; Cost +100%
Scorpion: DP +1; Disguise +4; Comp +2; Cost +50%
Unicorn: Subdual Resistance 4; Comp +2; Cost +100%

Crab: Kaiu-crafted armors have horns and blades erupting from each plate, making it the definitive armor for (very) close combat.
Crane: light and flexible, Kakita armors have the reputation to be as easy to wear as normal clothing.
Dragon: imbued by years of training with Dragon shugenja, Mirumoto armors protect their wearers against the arcane.
Lion: adorned with an authentic lion mane, Matsu armors have a fearsome appearance.
Mantis: made for stalkers, Tsuruchi armors are camouflaged and reinforced against the occasional fall.
Phoenix: Shiba have a tradition for robust armors that protect the vitals of devoted yojimbo.
Scorpion: the Bayushi family make armors that barely hinder the wearer's movements and look mostly like regular cloth.
Unicorn: the Shinjo have a history of long journeys and have created armors that protect against the element's fury.

Weapon Upgrades
Crab: always inflict lethal damage, target suffers 1 stress damage with a miss; Comp +2; Cost +100%
Crane: +2 gear bonus with Impress; Comp +5; Weight -25%; Cost +150%
Dragon: grants Whirling Strike trick (FC 221); Cost +100%
Lion: +2 threat range vs. lower Honor; Comp +2; Cost +150%
Mantis: adds lure quality; negates underwater combat penalties; Comp +2; Cost +50%
Phoenix: adds/increases guard +1 quality; Comp +2; Weight +25%; Cost +25%
Scorpion: +2 points of sneak attack damage; Comp -2; Weight -25%; Cost +50%
Unicorn: adds cavalry quality; +2 damage when mounted; Cost +100%

Crab: Kaiu blades, hammers, and tetsubo are massive and devastating, giving even Oni a pause.
Crane: the beautiful Doji blades are sought in the whole Empire for their superb steel engravings.
Dragon: Mirumoto blades are especially designed for two weapons fighting.
Lion: Akodo blades are powerful tools in the hand of the righteous, a deadly punishment for the unhonorables.
Mantis: the Yoritomo family forges unusual blades that remain just as useful underwater.
Phoenix: Shiba weapons are more tools of defense, just like the bushi that use them.
Scorpion: Shosuro blades are vicious, nasty weapons that slip easily between plates and scales.
Unicorn: the Utaku family forges weapons that prove extremely efficient on horseback.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on August 23, 2010, 10:23:05 AM
For Iaijutsu duels, what you want are the standoff rules.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 23, 2010, 11:03:16 AM
Style Feats

Strength of Purity
In Rokugan honor is a force more powerful than steel.
Prerequisites: Honor 3 or greater.
Benefit: At the begining of each combat you gain 3 Edge.

;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 23, 2010, 11:25:45 PM
Sleek, elegant. Love it!
For Iaijutsu duels, what you want are the standoff rules.
I like this idea too, but since there have been Dueling rules developed as a dramatic conflict here (http://www.crafty-games.com/node/824), I'd like to try that.

Here is what it looks like for now (NB: this time it's in English):
http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

It is far from over and some things written are not definitive yet (particularly Bushido). I will also change the suggested feats once the Feats chapter is done.

Hope you like it!

Some other things to do if you want:
Also, I really do like Krensky's suggestion to use Stand Off rules. What about Resolve-based Dueling rules instead of BAB? Would it cause any sort of trouble?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 24, 2010, 04:23:59 AM
Another attempt for the Bushido. Not quite satisfied yet, but I already prefer this version:

Bushido (Permanent)
In Rokugan, all characters possess a quality called Honor. It is an intrinsic measure of a character’s moral fiber and devotion to the tenets of bushi, the principles that define the duty of a samurai. It is a measure of a man’s nobility and purity, and is not subject to the perception of others. A samurai with high Honor is loyal to a fault and lives or dies by the sanctity of his word. By contrast, a character with a low Honor is untrustworthy and overly concerned with worldly matters.
Each character gains a permanent Honor bonus that starts at +5, which is what one might expect from the average samurai.
You may increase this starting value by accomplishing heroic deeds and spending Reputation at a cost of 10 Reputation per Honor point. Your Honor value may never exceed your Career Level + 8. For example, you may gain:
However, you may also lose Honor points by selfish actions, dishonorable conduct, or even simple foolishness. Honor point losses should be proportional to the fault and even more severe for characters with high Honor. However, no single loss should exceed 10 points, even in the direst situations.
All Honor point gains and losses are left at the GM's sole discretion.
Honor may be used in one of the following ways:

With these changes, Morg's feat would require 10 Honor for instance. Here are two others:

Soul of the Ancestors
Your devotion and honor may not be questioned by anyone.
Prerequisites: Lion samurai
Benefit: Once per dramatic conflict, you may substitute your Honor bonus for one challenge. Also, your maximum Honor value increases to your Career Level + 12.

Court Duelist
You can defend your own honor.
Benefit: Your Dueling Focus is set to one-half the number of Style feats you possess, rounded up, if not already higher. Further bonuses do not increase this value. When you take this feat you may reassign any weapon proficiencies you had previously spent on gaining Focus.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 24, 2010, 10:16:25 AM
Last thoughts of the day, I've designed a dozen strategies for dueling conflicts. Like it? No? Why? :)

Breath: You breathe slowly, preparing yourself for the next challenge to come. You may accept a –4 penalty on your check. If you succeed, you gain a +2 bonus to the next challenge.
Calling: You call forth your luck to guide your blade. You may spend 2 action dice to boost this check.
Calm Down: For a moment, you evade all stress and exhaustion to find some rest. Once per duel, you may accept a –8 penalty on your check. If you succeed, you lose all accumulated stress or subdual damage.
Detachment: You seem unconcerned by what is going on, but of course, it’s just a trick. You may accept a –4 penalty on your check. If you succeed, you also automatically succeed with a Threaten action targeting your opponent.
Focus: Your intense focus is obvious. All your attention is on the duel. You gain a +2 bonus on your check but suffer 1d10 heat damage.
Gaze: You watch your adversary in the eye, letting him know you don’t expect to lose. Your opponent and yourself make opposed Resolve checks. Whoever wins gains a +2 bonus on his check.
Hold On: You are just about to draw your blade, but you wait ... just a little longer. This is the normal strategy for a duel, implying no malus nor special effect.
Opening: Look! There’s an opening in your defense. Once per duel, you may accept a –8 penalty on your check but substitute your Bluff bonus in place of your base attack bonus.
Provoke: A weird look, a specific hand posture, and you trick your opponent to attack. You may accept a –4 penalty on your check. If you succeed, your opponent may not choose any strategy whose penalty is less than –4 for the next challenge.
Strike First: You only have one tiny chance. But if you succeed, it will all be over. You may accept a –12 penalty on your check. If you succeed, you win the duel instantly.
Unnerve: Your constant twitching is unnerving. You may accept a –4 penalty on your check. If you succeed, you also automatically succeed with a Tire action targeting your opponent.
Willpower: Your determination is the key to victory. Once per duel, you may accept a –8 penalty on your check but substitute your Resolve bonus in place of your base attack bonus.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on August 24, 2010, 10:35:57 AM
Dislike.

Dueling doesn't need a Dramatic Conflict.

The point of Dramtic Conflicts is to make skill usage as involved as combat.

The game already has rules for killing people. They're in the combat chapter. What you want are rules for Iaijutsu, which is a standoff.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 24, 2010, 10:55:31 AM
Last thoughts of the day, I've designed a dozen strategies for dueling conflicts. Like it? No? Why? :)

Recomend formating them as (dueling trick) so they may be purchased with proficiencies. The rules are set up so you don't need (and probably shouldn't have) strategies unless you've invested in dueling to some degree. Limit most or all of them to once per duel, so a player can't squat on one strategy over and over.

Dueling as a subsystem may not be approriate for all settings, but every incarnation of Rokugan as a gaming environment has had a mini-game for it - its NOT just 'moar combat' in this setting. It's ritualized, specialized, and more exclusive than a base attack bonus.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 24, 2010, 11:22:48 AM
Is this a mastercraft of 2.0 based conversion?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 24, 2010, 11:40:53 AM
What you want are rules for Iaijutsu, which is a standoff.

This. Your idea isn't bad, I just feel that it is unnecessarily complicated when the standoff does what you want in a much simpler way. I like the armor and weapon mods btw. Very nice!

Perhaps you could convert some of the basic schools into specialities? Such as:

Kakita Bushi
One man, one sword, one strike.
Bonus Feat: Quick Draw
Attribute Training: The lower of your Dexterity or Charisma scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus after any modifiers from your Species or Talent.
Edged Proficiency: You gain the Edged proficiency.
Natural Elegance: Your Appearance bonus increases by +1.
Paired Skills: Each time you gain 1 or more ranks in the Impress skill, you gain equal ranks in the Resolve skill. This may not increase your Resolve skill beyond its maximum rank.

Just an idea.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 24, 2010, 11:46:14 AM
Will someone please explain to me stand offs in Mastercraft, 'cause given a year or more to try and work them in, I didn't see a good solution ???.

Stress damage is used very differently and there are NONE of the tools for altering your thresholds that 2.0 offered. No feats, no Origin benefits, no class abilities.

I enjoy the parallels as much as the next person, but its just as much "adding a new system" as any of the other solutions.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 24, 2010, 11:55:55 AM
Hey, I just thought that running a duel as a dramatic conflict was too complicated.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 24, 2010, 12:05:33 PM
In most environments I'd agree. But most environments don't enshrine a thousand year dispute over how best to stab someone in the face as the cornerstone of an argument between tens of thousands of members of the warrior caste :).

The presence of a mini-game, ANY mini-game, is the sort of thing you can toggle on or off when you use the material at your own table. Its a case of do you want players to have the option to heavily specialize in something.

But whatever. I'll look forward to seeing how it turns out. Straight up combat rules, standoffs, mini-game... They all offer potentially interesting solutions.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Doublebond on August 24, 2010, 12:09:41 PM
I'm having a hard time seeing why it couldn't just be handled with combat. I've never played L5R, mind you, but surely any sort of small-scale violent dispute should be capable of being covered with straight-forward combat rules?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on August 24, 2010, 12:24:53 PM
Iaijutsu is a combination dick-swinging contest and mental chess battle. To me, that sounds like it's basically a CQB ranged grapple action using Intimidate (Cha) instead of Athletics (Str).

Pin the opponent, and they get to nod and walk off intact.
Injure them and inflict that stress damage of a threaten action; if they break, they run

etc, etc,
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 25, 2010, 12:22:45 AM
@Mister Andersen: That's basically what the dueling conflict is supposed to look like. A mini-game, as Scotty said, just like the grapple is, but with its own rules.

@Doublebond: It could. The point is, dueling is such a specific and important kind of conflict in Rokugan that it would be a shame not to have dedicated rules for it. Not that you can't simulate it with a regular combat, or a duel of Resolve, but the idea is to create a new option for those who'd like duels to have their own feel. If you don't like the option, you can still use standard rules.

@Morgenstern: Oh, so the preview rules on the wiki were self-contained! I should delete these strategies then, or squeeze them into feats, since there is no reason a duelist would buy a strategy rather than dueling focus with his proficiencies.

@glimmerrat: I like the idea, but I would rather see Clans as Talents. Hence, the Kakita bushi you describe could be either a Crane Fencer, or a Fencer with another Talent if he is not archetypal to the Crane clan. Why? Well, mostly because that's a lot less Origins to design. :P

@Krensky: I definitely get your point. But as Scotty said, there have always been "mini-game" rules for dueling in all incarnations of Rokugan. I do like the stand off rules, a lot, but again, as the Kenku Master said, their conversion to Mastercraft is not so easy. Dramatic conflicts, on the other hand, are officially scheduled for ... soon, I hope. :P

If Alex or Pat are reading this, do you still plan to make dueling a new dramatic conflict?

Hell, that was a lot of questions and remarks to answer, thanks guys! This gave me a whole new bunch of ideas. And in the meantime, I added a short list of all Rokugan weapons I could find, with equivalences in Fantasy Craft. Sometimes, it was already there, as for the naginata for instance, and sometimes, I had to make it up, as for the tetsubo which I handled as a great club. The only fully new weapon is the mai chong, this fantasy hybrid between a trident and a rake that only Boar samurai use. The document is not up to date, though.

With all this, I can update my to do list:
And that's it! Once this is done, the base conversion guide will be over. And it will be time for playtest, iconics, and NPCs (not necessarily in that order)! If you have ideas for anything, Origin, feat, whatever, please post it! :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 25, 2010, 12:42:48 AM
I like the idea, but I would rather see Clans as Talents. Hence, the Kakita bushi you describe could be either a Crane Fencer, or a Fencer with another Talent if he is not archetypal to the Crane clan. Why? Well, mostly because that's a lot less Origins to design. :P

If design is an issue, i'd be happy to help - I could bang out a whole clan's worth in 20 minutes. That said, if you don't want a Talent for each of the iconic schools then surely it'd be better to do a Talent for each family? For example - using the Crane (since we're on that topic anyway...):

Doji: attractive, graceful, wealthy, perfect grasp of etiquette
Kakita: arrogant, perfectionist, obsessed with being 'the best'
Asahina: pacifistic to a fault, difficult to drag into politics if they don't want to be
Daidoji: sneaky, rough and tumble, tough, highly militaristic

The only reason I press the issue is that as you can see, there's a lot of variation within each clan. You could then take a different talent if you're a less-than-archetypal member of your family. See, I like to have lots of options when it comes to Origins (of course, YMMV...), and L5R is one of those settings where if you're gonna do it, you need to do it right. If you'd prefer not to, that's cool (it is your conversion after all!), but my devil's advocate switch has been tripped now  ;)

*EDIT* Damn you aegis, now I want to play L5R!

*EDIT EDIT* As far as magic items go, I wouldn't waste your time. Nemuranai are so rare in Rokugan that I feel the GM should make each one up as a unique item. Sorry, I just remember Toturi Tsudao's +5 honorable lawful flaming burst katana (in a saya of keen edges) and +5 keen honorable throwing wakazashi. Please don't go there?  :-\
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on August 25, 2010, 01:14:51 AM
@Mister Andersen: That's basically what the dueling conflict is supposed to look like. A mini-game, as Scotty said, just like the grapple is, but with its own rules.

No, I'm saying directly use the Grapple rules and just change the effects of the various benefits.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 25, 2010, 01:17:30 AM
If design is an issue, i'd be happy to help - I could bang out a whole clan's worth in 20 minutes. That said, if you don't want a Talent for each of the iconic schools then surely it'd be better to do a Talent for each family? For example - using the Crane (since we're on that topic anyway...):

Doji: attractive, graceful, wealthy, perfect grasp of etiquette
Kakita: arrogant, perfectionist, obsessed with being 'the best'
Asahina: pacifistic to a fault, difficult to drag into politics if they don't want to be
Daidoji: sneaky, rough and tumble, tough, highly militaristic
You don't know what you've thrown yourself into. Deal. You take care of the family Talents? :D
*EDIT* Damn you aegis, now I want to play L5R!
I like spreading the Taint.
*EDIT EDIT* As far as magic items go, I wouldn't waste your time. Nemuranai are so rare in Rokugan that I feel the GM should make each one up as a unique item. Sorry, I just remember Toturi Tsudao's +5 honorable lawful flaming burst katana (in a saya of keen edges) and +5 keen honorable throwing wakazashi. Please don't go there?  :-\
Point taken. Since I had no idea anyway (except digging in Prayers & Treasures), let's save some space and forget this section. Hey hey hey, the list shortens! ;D

@Mister Andersen: Yes, I read you. But I'm stubborn. I miss dramatic conflicts and if I have an opportunity to reintroduce one, I will. :P
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on August 25, 2010, 08:22:05 AM
The dueling rules I remeber in L5R were focus, focus, strike and if it's still an issue regular combat.

Sounds like a standoff (although perhaps not as lethal) and the combat chapter to me.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 25, 2010, 09:00:23 AM
You don't know what you've thrown yourself into. Deal. You take care of the family Talents? :D

I don't know why i'm agreeing to this, but ok, sure.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Dhampire on August 25, 2010, 11:23:22 AM
The dueling rules I remeber in L5R were focus, focus, strike and if it's still an issue regular combat.

Sounds like a standoff (although perhaps not as lethal) and the combat chapter to me.

There are 3 stages to an Iaijutsu duel.

Assessment, where you size up your opponent and learn a bit about them (as relates to dueling).
Focus, where you hone your reaction, waiting for your opponents focus to waver.  Then you...
Strike, and unless to the death, the one striking first and successfully hitting, wins.

If the first strike fails, the opponent gets one... then it goes to a skirmish.

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on August 25, 2010, 11:25:52 AM
Which is pretty much what I just said.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 25, 2010, 03:04:01 PM
I'm looking into a project for Brakk, but once I come back up for air I'll go over the dueling stuff. It's got a year's worth of tarnish on it that needs to be rubbed off. I look at the strategies now and kinda wince ::).

Glimmerrat, if you can find some of my old posts on Lions and Cranes, theres a couple new origin tricks in there that will make the Talents go MUCH faster. Try a search for Golden Lion.

I advocate treating shugenja as Priests. Elemental paths are pretty much set in the book. Need a path for ancestors (Kitsu magic) and a path that grants the magic item creation feats for making trinket nemurani (Iuchhi and Asahina). Darkness path for Shohei/Shosuro. Really, most o the magic in the setting is done if your start from priests.

(Note on personal bias - I build Rokugan adaptations with the CCG as the primary source, not the RPG. I find the cardgame mechanics better balanced, more diverse, and more inspiring.)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 25, 2010, 10:56:22 PM
Glimmerrat, if you can find some of my old posts on Lions and Cranes, theres a couple new origin tricks in there that will make the Talents go MUCH faster. Try a search for Golden Lion.
Hehe, I was expecting to use the Golden Lion as an expert class for Lions indeed.
I advocate treating shugenja as Priests. Elemental paths are pretty much set in the book. Need a path for ancestors (Kitsu magic) and a path that grants the magic item creation feats for making trinket nemurani (Iuchhi and Asahina). Darkness path for Shohei/Shosuro. Really, most o the magic in the setting is done if your start from priests.
Which is exactly what I've done so far. :)  I just need a few new Paths, indeed.
(Note on personal bias - I build Rokugan adaptations with the CCG as the primary source, not the RPG. I find the cardgame mechanics better balanced, more diverse, and more inspiring.)
I must admit I don't know the CCG at all, but I'm not a specialist of the RPG either. :P

Can't wait to see your thoughts on dueling!
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 26, 2010, 07:05:07 AM
Glimmerrat, if you can find some of my old posts on Lions and Cranes, theres a couple new origin tricks in there that will make the Talents go MUCH faster. Try a search for Golden Lion.

Found the Golden Lion class, but I can't find any origin tricks... what precisely were you referring to?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 26, 2010, 10:36:09 AM
Found the Golden Lion class, but I can't find any origin tricks... what precisely were you referring to?
Found it :). Basically It's a 1 point advantage that feeds into certain prestige classes, and the observation that a rigid society like Rokugan's was a place where Iconic Classes would be perfectly reasonable as part of some human talents. Especially if you 8-10 factional talents (the clans) and 50ish even narrower family talents.
Quote
Back to the topic at hand: I tend to think Iconic Classes and Iconic specialties could be very helpful in creating human Talents for a rigidly stratified culture. I also came up with a new benefit for Talents that could reflect such strong presumptions about upbringing leading into a specific skill set. Right now I'm leaning towards the name 'calling' for the benefit. Here's some examples using a pair of noble houses from L5R (there would be a total of 7 points like normal, this is just showing how I'd use the restriction and the new benefit).

Doji
(1) Calling: You may gain levels as an Gallant or Schemer beginning at Career Level 4 if you meet all other prerequisites for that class.
(-1) Iconic Class: Courtier or Lancer

Matsu
(1) Calling: You may gain levels as a Beastmaster or Golden Lion beginning at Career Level 4 if you meet all other prerequisites for that class.
(-1) Iconic Class: Lancer or Scout




Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on August 26, 2010, 10:38:57 AM
That's a mechanics combo I can happily get behind.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 26, 2010, 10:42:03 AM
It's a good idea. I am sorely tempted to add Iconic Classes to ALL family talents now. Here's the first draft of the Crab stuff, sans Calling or Iconic Class. Please feel free to suggest how to alter them, and if you like them, say so (and why). If anyone knows the html tags for highlighting stuff, i'll add it in an edit. I didn't bother with Toritaka since after the Falcon clan ceased to exist they stopped mattering to me. I also missed out the Yasuki because they don't feel like Crabs and never have.

Crab Clan Talents

Hida
Descended from the Kami Hida, you are a fierce, passionate warrior.
[1] • Attributes: +2 Strength, -2 Charisma
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Dhampire on August 26, 2010, 10:50:11 AM
Thoughts for Iconic Classes in Crab families:

Hida: Captain, Soldier

Hiruma: Explorer, Scout

Kaiu: Keeper, Sage

Kuni: Priest, Assassin
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 26, 2010, 10:52:34 AM
Thoughts for Iconic Classes in Crab families:

Hida: Captain, Soldier

Hiruma: Explorer, Scout

Kaiu: Keeper, Sage

Kuni: Priest, Assassin

I agree with all of these. Good catch with the Kuni Assassin!
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 26, 2010, 10:52:55 AM
OK, those officially rock (Hiruma + lean season = genius). I would however add a general purpose "Crab Clan" talent without Iconic Classes so players can create characters from any of the crab Major houses (or the vassal families) that fall more in line with the generic 'Crabness'.

(Kuni with a calling as monster slayers. you know you want to...)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 26, 2010, 10:59:54 AM
If callings do get used we probably need to pre-imagine a couple of expert classes they can point to even if they aren't written yet.

Brightblade (super Crane-style duelest)
Bloodspeaker (corrupt monk/priest)
Tattooed Man (Dragon Monk specializing in ramping 1-2 tattoos through the roof)
White Rider (Battlemaidens)
Inquisitor (Phoenix/Crab taint hunter)

Huh. Tattoos as paths... Must ponder.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 26, 2010, 11:09:08 AM
I would however add a general purpose "Crab Clan" talent so players can create characters from any of the crab Major houses (or the vassal families) that fall more in line with the generic 'Crabness'.

Solid plan - i'll have a crack.

Kuni with a calling as monster slayers. you know you want to...

Genius. This goes in.

*EDIT* Maybe the Edgemaster would make a pretty good substitution for the Kenshinzen?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 26, 2010, 11:27:54 AM
Looking at what we've already got:

Alchemist = Dragon Shugenja?
Beastmaster = Unicorn or Lion
Edgemaster = Crane or Dragon
Paladin = Lion
Rune Knight = A martial Shugenja
Swashbuckler = Mantis (lol)
Bloodsworn = Seppun or Phoenix
Force of Nature = Phoenix Tensai
Mist Dancer = Scorpion or maybe Hiruma?
Gallant = Crane or Lion
Infernalist = Maho Tsukai
Monster Slayer = Kuni
Deadeye = Wasp

Martial Artist = Restricted to Monks only
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Dhampire on August 26, 2010, 11:39:47 AM
Huh. Tattoos as paths... Must ponder.

I think this could work.  It'd probably be best if Monks could select Tattoo path steps in addition or instead of the Vow paths.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Dhampire on August 26, 2010, 11:44:17 AM
Looking at what we've already got:
Infernalist = Maho Tsukai

This depends on if we want Sorcery (which does mimic the tabletop and LARP Shugenja), or pure elemental Priests.

Of course, Spellbound will probably give us some Path+Spells class, which may work better than either.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 26, 2010, 11:54:03 AM
Looking at what we've already got:

Alchemist = Dragon Shugenja?
Agasha, so Agasha.
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Beastmaster = Unicorn or Lion
Two Matsu cards with that trait. COuld see some Shinjo riders modeled this way.
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Edgemaster = Crane or Dragon
Would go Dragon, Crab, Lion. The ability to use a variety of different weapons on demand is less appropriate to crane. Gallant covers the Crane approach almost like it was written for them...  ::)
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Paladin = Lion
Could also see Phoenix in this role.
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Rune Knight = A martial Shugenja
I'd leave it out - seems forced to me.
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Swashbuckler = Mantis (lol)
Shweet!
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Bloodsworn = Seppun or Phoenix
Coincidence, I'm sure... ::)
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Force of Nature = Phoenix Tensai
Oooo. Sly. I like it.
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Mist Dancer = Scorpion or maybe Hiruma?
Shosuro, maybe. Probably just need to make a dedicated shinobi (mystic ninja) Expert class
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Gallant = Crane or Lion
Need I say it...  ::)
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Infernalist = Maho Tsukai
Possibly. Let me look at it again, but I think we might need somethign more fitted to Priest follow-on than mage.
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Monster Slayer = Kuni
Falcon Clan too.
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Deadeye = Wasp
Heheheheeheeheh...

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Martial Artist = Restricted to Monks only
I'm gonna be a freak and suggest leaving them out. They are more of a Chinese tradition than a Japanese one.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Dhampire on August 26, 2010, 12:16:10 PM
Deadeye = Wasp
Heheheheeheeheh...

Oh, good lord, I had missed that.  Wow.  Wow.

I'll second each of Morg's comments with one exception.

Martial Artist.  I'll support its inclusion, as it does exist (IIRC), but it shouldn't be favored by anyone (except maybe the type of Dragon Monks that are aggressive).


One thing that's not been talked about much.  Spider and Lost.
Not available as PCs?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Race on August 26, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
Deadeye Wasp Clan Archers?

I'm a big fan of the minor houses also, Fox, Wasp, Turtle

Though Daidoji from the Crane and the Scorpion Clan in general are my favorites to play.

If you havent read the Clan novels, I'd certainly recomend them. Winter Court still brings back fond memories.

I loved the original system for L5R, and felt like the D20 incarnation only gave a fair (if that) way to get back into it later on. However, interestingly enough Swashbuckling Adventures (D20 7th Seas) gave AWESOME rules combat that I felt D20 at a whole was missing, and brought the freshness of life back into both regular combat and Duelings as a whole. I dont feel that FC has the same holes that D20 did, but I do like reading the 'mini-game' ideas for iaijutsu. Many a game had I seen a player whom was great at the charging hoarde combat, get stuck at a duel, or the duelest lose his composure when surounded by that same hoarde in game.

All in all, this is proving an interesting read, and I'm liking everything I am seeing here so far, reguardless of which way it ends up going. Thanks!
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 26, 2010, 10:49:13 PM
One thing that's not been talked about much.  Spider and Lost.
Not available as PCs?

See, i've never liked the idea of either as PCs. They're bad guys. It's like the mistake White Wolf made when they decided to let people play members of the Sabbat or Technocracy. Or when they published rules for playing Formori. Anyway, I digress - pardon me. Maybe we should consider them, as I admit to being biased.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Sletchman on August 26, 2010, 11:13:17 PM
Probably just need to make a dedicated shinobi (mystic ninja) Expert class

Wasn't there a Shinobi expert class for Shadowforce archer?  Might be worth looking at for some idea plunder.

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Martial Artist = Restricted to Monks only
I'm gonna be a freak and suggest leaving them out. They are more of a Chinese tradition than a Japanese one.

I'd say include them, it's not like they're forced to be a "Monk".  In fact my most fun martial artist very rarely used any unarmed attacks.  I don't think it should be iconic to anyone though.

EDIT: Found it Here (http://www.crafty-games.com/files/File/spycraft_mystics_of_the_east.pdf), but a lot of the class abilities are based on now defunct mechanics - and the rest on using SFA as a basis for your magic system.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 26, 2010, 11:23:26 PM
Doc update!  ;D
http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

I will delete piece by piece the class-related fluff and replace the schools by Talents. But other than that, things seem to fit quite nicely. You will also notice new Honor rules. These are mostly Morg's, thanks again. I've just written some fluff around.

@Morgenstern: I like the Calling/Iconic Classes rule. Added to glimmerrat's Hiruma and Kuni in the doc. Also, good idea on planning a few more expert classes. I already have a draft on a Sleuth-based Investigator, but don't know if that's what you had in mind for the Inquisitor.

@glimmerrat: I love the Talents, great! The Torikata and Yasuki need their own as well ... and a generic Crab, as Morg said. Also, I like your expert class suggestions, but I don't expect to use sorcery in this setting ... rather "evil"-oriented Paths.

@Race: Thanks! :)

@Sletchman: There was even a "ninja" in World on Fire. We need to dig this one too.

So, basically, a lot more Talents need to be done, but it's going in the right direction. Some expert classes will need to be designed. I still have a few feats I'd like to twitch. And dueling rules ... Yum!

Well, I'll try to take a look at these feats and think about one or two expert classes (I'm going to dig up this Investigator). If you need help for some Talents, glimmerrat, say it. ;)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 27, 2010, 12:34:31 AM
Finished, I think:

Crab Clan Talents

Crab
You are the wall against which the tide of Jigoku will break.
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Strength or Constitution
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 27, 2010, 04:33:06 AM
'love it! What about Spirits Turning for Toritaka? ;D They are the Crab living in a haunted valley, right?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 27, 2010, 06:13:44 AM
'love it! What about Spirits Turning for Toritaka? ;D They are the Crab living in a haunted valley, right?

They have stronger Wisdom and Resove, making them better at dealing with spirit 'issues'. However, not all of them are exorcists! They're just more used to the presence of the restless dead. I'm working on the Crane as we speak.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 27, 2010, 11:56:19 AM
You speak the truth, good sir. :)

Meanwhile, I only had the time to write two feat chains. The first one is to represent one's influence within his own clan. Meant for Courtiers, of course, but any samurai caring for his reputation might be interested. The benefits are big (I think) but limited in space, basically. The other one represents more global social influence.

Clan Basics
You have earned a certain status among your clan, maybe not by the sword, but by clever choices.
Benefit: The starting Disposition of each member of your clan increases by 5. Also, you may increase the Trust of each of your Contacts belonging to your clan for 15 Reputation instead of 25.
Note: Clan should be seen as a vague notion here, it can also describe an order, a brotherhood or an important family, like the Seppun.

Clan Mastery
You are raising into power, gaining both allies and enemies inside your clan.
Prerequisites: Clan Basics
Benefit: Your Military or Noble Renown increases by 1. Also, while you are on your clan’s lands, your Military and Noble Renown are considered 2 ranks higher for determining which Favors you may use.

Clan Supremacy
Your influence among your clan is vast, rivalling with that of the highest officials.
Prerequisites: Clan Mastery
Benefit: The starting Disposition of each member of your clan increases by an additional 5 (total 10). Also, when you request a Favor a member of your clan can reasonably perform, its Reputation cost decreases by 2 (minimum 1).

Court Basics
You are a social predator with a killer instinct.
Benefit: Whenever you succeed with a Detect Lie check, you may spend an action die to bamboozle your target and make her reveal the clue she was lying about. People don’t like being tricked and confusing someone has consequences. At the end of the scene, the target’s Attitude toward the character worsens by 1 grade.

Court Mastery
You always end up stainless, even after the most vicious war of influence.
Prerequisites: Court Basics
Benefit: Whenever you suffer Reputation loss from exposure, the loss is reduced by 5 (minimum 0). Also, your target’s Attitude does not decrease after a successful Browbeat or Coerce check.

Court Supremacy
Your manipulation skills make everyone your best friend.
Prerequisites: Court Mastery
Benefit: When you call upon a contact, the result of the Impress/Persuade check you automatically obtain is increased by 10 (FC 191). Also, your apparent incentives are always one category higher (FC 75).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 27, 2010, 12:48:09 PM
Would change the Clan B/M/S to Fealty B/M/S... and look in your mailbox :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 28, 2010, 12:19:13 AM
First draft:

Crane Clan Talents

Crane
You are the benchmark by which other Samurai define themselves.
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Dexterity or Charisma
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 28, 2010, 03:00:09 AM
'love them. The Kakita was a bit surprising at first, but hell they are consummate specialists after all. Just one question/suggestion: for the Asahina, why The Extra Mile and not Bandage?

Edit: And what about the Yasuki? Same as the Crab?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 28, 2010, 08:55:47 AM
'love them. The Kakita was a bit surprising at first, but hell they are consummate specialists after all.
The Kakita are not all warriors - they're of the opinion 'if you're going to do anything, damn well make sure that you're the best at it'. This talent emphasizes that, in that it can focus on anything and be good at it.

Just one question/suggestion: for the Asahina, why The Extra Mile and not Bandage?
Not all Asahina are trained apothecaries, but most will go out of their way to help someone in need.

And what about the Yasuki? Same as the Crab?

I guess. Traitors.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 28, 2010, 12:04:58 PM
Suggest [1] +1 (any), -1 (any) for Kakita. I don't see any half point abilities to fill in th ecurrent gap and while they strive to be perfect I think a little fault somewhre (-1attribute of their choice) is not unreasonable :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 28, 2010, 01:00:46 PM
Their total was 6.5 anyway, so 1 point abilities work fine too. Agile defense?

After re-reading, I find Court Mastery and Supremacy a little bit weak. Don't you think?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on August 28, 2010, 02:58:46 PM
Great work guys, some of the best games I've been in have been L5R games, so I'll be following this with interest. To contribute, how about a new talent ability to represent families/schools who specialize/have been granted leniency for certain dishonorable activities? Poking dead guys for Kuni (as long as they're tainted), fireworks creation for Agasha/Tamori, creating/setting traps for Kaiu/Daidoji, etc.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 28, 2010, 03:00:04 PM
I'd just expect them to have lower honor scores.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on August 28, 2010, 04:08:40 PM
Really? The Kuni artisan who specializes in making traps are less respected than his armorsmithing and weaponsmithing friends? The Agasha/Tamori fireworks master is viewed with suspicion because his expertise with fireworks also lets him make explosives? The Kitsuki are mocked as disrespectful fools whenever they pull out their feudal csi kit and collect evidence rather than testimony?

Maybe not a new new talent ability, but there should be some mention that playing as specific families/classes lets you get away with certain things.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 28, 2010, 04:43:50 PM
Really? The Kuni artisan who specializes in making traps are less respected than his armorsmithing and weaponsmithing friends? The Agasha/Tamori fireworks master is viewed with suspicion because his expertise with fireworks also lets him make explosives? The Kitsuki are mocked as disrespectful fools whenever they pull out their feudal csi kit and collect evidence rather than testimony?

Yes? That its common practice around the homestead does not make it acceptable in the greater community. Those groups draw their identity from bucking the system. Kitsuki getting a ration of poo for being evidence-oriented is AS IMPORTANT to playing one as them being evidence-oriented :). The Scorpions take on crappy jobs all the time because they think it's important, that doesn't also entitle them to high honor scores. The are dedicated, driven samurai too, but they are not big proponents of bushido, and that's what honor is measuring.

Sometimes characters just need to suck it up. Trap making is suspicious and of questionable honor. Explosives and their manufacture are suspicious and of questionable honor. Evidience over testimony is suspicious and of questionable sanity ;).

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Maybe not a new new talent ability, but there should be some mention that playing as specific families/classes lets you get away with certain things.

That's sort of built into the honor system now - low honor has value and a place. It lets you do things like that without getting any additional frownie points.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on August 28, 2010, 08:53:30 PM
I dunno, maybe it's just my group's take on the setting being different, but from my point of view there's enough difference there that it should be represented mechanically. Some examples:

1. If anybody steps up in a court and says "This man is innocent, this evidence proves it." the general reaction would be "LOL evidence GTFO nub" (paraphrased) and a not insignificant loss of face. If a Kitsuki did it (after the Kitsuki Method was recognized by the Emperor, of course), then they would at least get a grudging "Weeeeellll.... okay, we'll take your word for it."

2. If an artisan introduces himself at winter court as an armoursmith or a weaponsmith, he'd be received well, as it's a good, honourable profession. If he said he was a trap-maker, he might even be denied access, as traps are dishonorable/not a warrior's tool/beneath a samurai's notice. A Kaiu trap-maker would gain entrance as he's still a Kaiu, and probably a bloody genius to boot. Granted, he might not be the most sought after conversation partner, but he'd be treated with the basic level of respect, at least.

3. A party of samurai happens upon some barrels, which they promptly open. One of them recognizes from the smell that there is gunpowder in the barrel. Seeing as even possessing gunpowder is a high crime in Rokugan, the others could ask the samurai some very pointed questions about where he learned that bit of information... or he's an Agasha/Tamori who simply claims it smells like fireworks, and maybe the ones holding torches could take a couple steps back as improperly stored fireworks can be every bit as dangerous as gunpowder, I'm sure you've heard the stories.

4. Talking about the Shadowlands outside of Crablands without damn good reasons is either a breach of etiquette... or a Crab telling war stories. Others might find the subject of his stories distasteful, but again, it's socially accepted that Crabs talk about the Shadowlands so people don't get as riled up about it anymore.

5. Most Lion would rather die than show raw, naked emotion... except the Ikoma Omoidasu, who can weep, scream and curse as he see fit.

All situations where characters from a specific family/clan can either do something that other clans would consider dishonest, or have socially accepted ways around it. Again, might not need a specific talent ability, but there should be at least say somewhere 'This family/clan is known for X, and normally suffer no/reduced honor/reputation loss for activities related to it.'
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 28, 2010, 10:13:20 PM
I dunno, maybe it's just my group's take on the setting being different, but from my point of view there's enough difference there that it should be represented mechanically. Some examples:

1. If anybody steps up in a court and says "This man is innocent, this evidence proves it." the general reaction would be "LOL evidence GTFO nub" (paraphrased) and a not insignificant loss of face. If a Kitsuki did it (after the Kitsuki Method was recognized by the Emperor, of course), then they would at least get a grudging "Weeeeellll.... okay, we'll take your word for it."

To my mind the Kitsuki is welcome to testify "I believe..." with or without evidence as his justification, and like any other samurai sticking his nose in, he's risking getting his face dueled off by the accused. I figured that was why most Kitsuki are also damn fine duelists - they get called on to back up their commentary with steel. In any case, the proceedings of the legal system are not much of an issue as it relates to bushido/honor.

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2. If an artisan introduces himself at winter court as an armoursmith or a weaponsmith, he'd be received well, as it's a good, honourable profession. If he said he was a trap-maker, he might even be denied access, as traps are dishonorable/not a warrior's tool/beneath a samurai's notice. A Kaiu trap-maker would gain entrance as he's still a Kaiu, and probably a bloody genius to boot. Granted, he might not be the most sought after conversation partner, but he'd be treated with the basic level of respect, at least.

You called it - those things are professions, and not sources of honor for a warrior. The Kaiu having many fine craftsmen doesn't earn them honor and being a craftsman of of dishonorable implements isn't gonna get any better sounding just because you put a family name in front of it. Kaiu are a superb example of a Honor 1 family - some are exceptional individuals, but this is a family commited to winning an unwinnable war and willing to use means that have little to do with bushido.

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3. A party of samurai happens upon some barrels, which they promptly open. One of them recognizes from the smell that there is gunpowder in the barrel. Seeing as even possessing gunpowder is a high crime in Rokugan, the others could ask the samurai some very pointed questions about where he learned that bit of information... or he's an Agasha/Tamori who simply claims it smells like fireworks, and maybe the ones holding torches could take a couple steps back as improperly stored fireworks can be every bit as dangerous as gunpowder, I'm sure you've heard the stories.

Sorry. Missed the point here. Are you suggesting that knowing the smell of a unlawful substance would be dishonorable to anybody but an Agasha? Samurai are pretty rigid but that seems to be reaching real hard to create a niche for something that isn't that special at all. Quite few samurai might be acquainted with that smell either from fighting those who use it or just being on guard duty on the walls some night their daimyo decided to celebrate with fireworks.

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4. Talking about the Shadowlands outside of Crablands without damn good reasons is either a breach of etiquette... or a Crab telling war stories. Others might find the subject of his stories distasteful, but again, it's socially accepted that Crabs talk about the Shadowlands so people don't get as riled up about it anymore.

Again, this seems like inventing a case to create an exception. If the host is offended, you're not being polite and it doesn't matter if its a crab or a unicorn or a phoenix - don't be rude in somebody else's house :). An honorable Crab knows when to hold his tongue, regardless of topic or place :).

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5. Most Lion would rather die than show raw, naked emotion... except the Ikoma Omoidasu, who can weep, scream and curse as he see fit.

And nobody mistakes an Omoidasu as an ideal warrior. Poets and playwrights are free to scream and weep and moon over love denied :). They are the release valve for the single largest army in Rokugan of folks with a stick up their collective backside - valued in their role, but NOT models of bushido.

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All situations where characters from a specific family/clan can either do something that other clans would consider dishonest, or have socially accepted ways around it. Again, might not need a specific talent ability, but there should be at least say somewhere 'This family/clan is known for X, and normally suffer no/reduced honor/reputation loss for activities related to it.'

To me a code that says you ought to be get off another swing against your enemies even if your head has been struck from your body is not a code about making excuses for people's behavior. It is not tolerant of human weakness. "Its ok, he's a Crab." No, it's not ok, its unbecoming of a model samurai. This tension - with many folks commited to the welfare of the Empire but uninterested in following tenants of bushido when they stand in the way of getting the job done is a key element of the setting - it's what lets the Crab and Scorpion be NOBLE without always being HONORABLE. Excusing their actions blurs the two and actually takes away from some of the coolest roleplaying oportunities of the setting. With the rules set up to not make honor a race to the highest value because all the mechanical goodies are hidden at the top, these families should be allowed to revel in the fact that they are not, nor are they trying to be, ideal samurai.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 29, 2010, 02:05:53 AM
Crab and Crane have been edited slightly so that they conform to the 7pt limit. Kakita have been altered slightly, although I don't like Agile Defense for them even though i've added it. It just doesn't feel right, although i'm at a loss to explain why. I've added the Yasuki too for the sake of being pedantic.

Any other issues before I move onto the Dragon?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 29, 2010, 02:15:44 AM
Crab and Crane have been edited slightly so that they conform to the 7pt limit. Kakita have been altered slightly, although I don't like Agile Defense for them even though i've added it. It just doesn't feel right, although i'm at a loss to explain why.
I agree, it's not a perfect fit, I just didn't had any other idea. Or what about +2 any, -1 any for stats?
Any other issues before I move onto the Dragon?
Nope, I'll add those to the doc! (Maybe I was just picturing Daidoji with higher Dex than Con, but that's from the RPG, so ...)

Edit: and here's the latest version. You may also note Morgenstern's call on Alignments in the Interests chapters. It's a lot more than the two I had first devised, but it has the advantage to focus more on Clan fidelity and introduce some new, interesting Paths.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on August 29, 2010, 02:33:57 AM
I dunno, maybe it's just my group's take on the setting being different, but from my point of view there's enough difference there that it should be represented mechanically. Some examples:

1. If anybody steps up in a court and says "This man is innocent, this evidence proves it." the general reaction would be "LOL evidence GTFO nub" (paraphrased) and a not insignificant loss of face. If a Kitsuki did it (after the Kitsuki Method was recognized by the Emperor, of course), then they would at least get a grudging "Weeeeellll.... okay, we'll take your word for it."

To my mind the Kitsuki is welcome to testify "I believe..." with or without evidence as his justification, and like any other samurai sticking his nose in, he's risking getting his face dueled off by the accused. I figured that was why most Kitsuki are also damn fine duelists - they get called on to back up their commentary with steel. In any case, the proceedings of the legal system are not much of an issue as it relates to bushido/honor.

My point here was that evidence means bugger all to the average rokugani. It might help point investigators in the right direction, but it carries no weight in building a case. The fact that Kitsuki have an Imperial Writ behind them gives them quite a leg up, insomuch that the accused probably will have to challenge to a duel to prove his innocence versus a Kitsuki, while against any other trying that could quite likely reverse the situation and accuse him of  lies and slandering of his good name, thus causing a loss of face and ultimately honor of the accuser.

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2. If an artisan introduces himself at winter court as an armoursmith or a weaponsmith, he'd be received well, as it's a good, honourable profession. If he said he was a trap-maker, he might even be denied access, as traps are dishonorable/not a warrior's tool/beneath a samurai's notice. A Kaiu trap-maker would gain entrance as he's still a Kaiu, and probably a bloody genius to boot. Granted, he might not be the most sought after conversation partner, but he'd be treated with the basic level of respect, at least.

You called it - those things are professions, and not sources of honor for a warrior. The Kaiu having many fine craftsmen doesn't earn them honor and being a craftsman of of dishonorable implements isn't gonna get any better sounding just because you put a family name in front of it. Kaiu are a superb example of a Honor 1 family - some are exceptional individuals, but this is a family commited to winning an unwinnable war and willing to use means that have little to do with bushido.

But they are a samurai family. All their crafters are samurai, and certain crafts are/should be honorable (making katanas, for instance?). In their case, as with all Crab, they are almost utterly devoted to duty, and it is their duty to make and set traps for the defense of their clan and the entire empire. This should not lose them reputation/honor. What I see as the main reason Kaiu, and the Crab as a whole, as being low honor is because they more or less ignore most of the tenets of Bushido, either because they have no time for niceties, or because it would endanger or harm them to follow them, and since they chose duty over all the others, they have no qualms about ignoring half the codes of bushido.

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3. A party of samurai happens upon some barrels, which they promptly open. One of them recognizes from the smell that there is gunpowder in the barrel. Seeing as even possessing gunpowder is a high crime in Rokugan, the others could ask the samurai some very pointed questions about where he learned that bit of information... or he's an Agasha/Tamori who simply claims it smells like fireworks, and maybe the ones holding torches could take a couple steps back as improperly stored fireworks can be every bit as dangerous as gunpowder, I'm sure you've heard the stories.

Sorry. Missed the point here. Are you suggesting that knowing the smell of a unlawful substance would be dishonorable to anybody but an Agasha? Samurai are pretty rigid but that seems to be reaching real hard to create a niche for something that isn't that special at all. Quite few samurai might be acquainted with that smell either from fighting those who use it or just being on guard duty on the walls some night their daimyo decided to celebrate with fireworks.

Honestly? Mostly, yes. Fireworks is fairly rare, being only made by one family, and is generally used by the rich and powerful during celebrations, while many prefer the tradition of letting the shugenja put on a show. So you'd have to have a fairly interesting backstory to have been close enough to get a good whiff of fireworks, or be from one of the families that make fireworks, or actually use gunpowder to have a fair chance of recognizing it. If you aren't, and still is able to recognize it, that brings up the question of how you are so familiar with a substance that is considered high treason and one of the worst non-shadowlands-related crimes you can commit to even possess the smallest quantity of. And since it's an imperial crime to use them, not many in rokugan do, so unless the game's set shortly after the battle of white stag, it's back to 'interesting backstory' time to explain how you know of it, and even then it'd probably be a minor breach of etiquette.

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4. Talking about the Shadowlands outside of Crablands without damn good reasons is either a breach of etiquette... or a Crab telling war stories. Others might find the subject of his stories distasteful, but again, it's socially accepted that Crabs talk about the Shadowlands so people don't get as riled up about it anymore.

Again, this seems like inventing a case to create an exception. If the host is offended, you're not being polite and it doesn't matter if its a crab or a unicorn or a phoenix - don't be rude in somebody else's house :). An honorable Crab knows when to hold his tongue, regardless of topic or place :).
Again, societal differences. Crabs talk about shadowlands all the time, so it's really easy for them to slip up. Ask a crab about their tetsubo, and he might answer with pride that he has used it to crack the heads of many goblins, hags, onis and trolls. This would be completely natural for a crab to say, even for a fairly honorable one, and nobody would be surprised by that answer, but outside the crab lands it would probably be a breach of etiquette, certainly if he was from any other clan than crab.

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5. Most Lion would rather die than show raw, naked emotion... except the Ikoma Omoidasu, who can weep, scream and curse as he see fit.

And nobody mistakes an Omoidasu as an ideal warrior. Poets and playwrights are free to scream and weep and moon over love denied :). They are the release valve for the single largest army in Rokugan of folks with a stick up their collective backside - valued in their role, but NOT models of bushido.

But they are still respected samurai, not despite what they do, but because of it. Since their emotional outbursts and such are actually their way of serving their lord by keeping the other lion mostly sane, he should gain honor by doing it, or at the very least not lose any.

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All situations where characters from a specific family/clan can either do something that other clans would consider dishonest, or have socially accepted ways around it. Again, might not need a specific talent ability, but there should be at least say somewhere 'This family/clan is known for X, and normally suffer no/reduced honor/reputation loss for activities related to it.'

To me a code that says you ought to be get off another swing against your enemies even if your head has been struck from your body is not a code about making excuses for people's behavior. It is not tolerant of human weakness. "Its ok, he's a Crab." No, it's not ok, its unbecoming of a model samurai. This tension - with many folks commited to the welfare of the Empire but uninterested in following tenants of bushido when they stand in the way of getting the job done is a key element of the setting - it's what lets the Crab and Scorpion be NOBLE without always being HONORABLE. Excusing their actions blurs the two and actually takes away from some of the coolest roleplaying oportunities of the setting. With the rules set up to not make honor a race to the highest value because all the mechanical goodies are hidden at the top, these families should be allowed to revel in the fact that they are not, nor are they trying to be, ideal samurai.

Bushido is an ideal that many strive to follow, but all but a few fall short of. Humans are flawed, and society even more so. It does not help when the tenets of bushido, as described in l5r, can and often do clash with each other. Compassion and Courtesy may compel you to hold your tongue, while honesty and sincerity may compel you to speak up. From the point of view of the codes of bushido, both are right, and you must decide which one is more right for you. Different clans emphasize different tenets, which shape how the clans view themselves and others. This collective perception of bushido does mean not everyone is held to the same standard, some stereotypes and preconceptions are strong enought to influence honor gains/losses. Consider the Yoritomo and Yasuki families, they've pretty much specialized in buying and selling. Hell, one could say it's their duty to keep their respective clans supplied/monied up, so why should they lose honor for doing what's been their job for hundreds of years? Sometimes they've held on to the bucking long enough to settle into a niche, with it's own benefits. I'm looking at it mostly as extra flavor, not gaming the system.

'Sides, how much would it throw off your proposed Honor system by giving out small reduce/ignore conditions? E.g.: 'Crab take half penalty for inappropriately talking about shadowlands,' 'Kuni take half penalty for examining dead things as long as it is tainted,' 'Yasuki take no penalty from using the Haggle skill,' 'Hiruma may carry and use gunpowder in the shadowlands,' 'scorpions take half penalty from lying,' 'scouts (vocation, not class) take no penalty from Sneak and Ambush,' 'characters with the Bandage feat are considered doctors and may Mend without penalty.' So on and so forth.

With honor being reflected in everything you do, you'd have to qualify for a fair few of these before they have any significant effect, and would only have somewhat easier to increase in honor, it would still be something to work for.

Or it could just be my group's view on honor, Bushido and how it works differs from the norm, it doesn't matter. It's not like the conversion is any worse without this, I just thought it would give it a bit more depth, open up a few of the families. I'll just sit back and see how the rest shapes up, should be good judging by what's come so far :).

Oh, and sorry for the poor language, it's too early to be too late, and I'm feeling a mite sleep deprived at the moment. Off to bed...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 29, 2010, 02:49:41 AM
I was just picturing Daidoji with higher Dex than Con, but that's from the RPG, so

Tough as old boots and heavily built, as they spend so long training, marching and fighting in heavy armour. Sounds like Con to me...  ;) Don't forget, the Harriers are a small fraction the family. Most are heavy infantry.

Maybe you could do a Harrier speciality, with Attribute Training (Str/Dex)? That might work?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on August 29, 2010, 09:19:08 AM
Kakita have been altered slightly, although I don't like Agile Defense for them even though i've added it. It just doesn't feel right, although i'm at a loss to explain why.

You might be thinking of the iconic Kakita stance, One Leg Stance, as standing still on one leg doesn't really sounds like 'agile defense.'
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Blankbeard on August 29, 2010, 04:07:56 PM
'Sides, how much would it throw off your proposed Honor system by giving out small reduce/ignore conditions? E.g.: 'Crab take half penalty for inappropriately talking about shadowlands,' 'Kuni take half penalty for examining dead things as long as it is tainted,' 'Yasuki take no penalty from using the Haggle skill,' 'Hiruma may carry and use gunpowder in the shadowlands,' 'scorpions take half penalty from lying,' 'scouts (vocation, not class) take no penalty from Sneak and Ambush,' 'characters with the Bandage feat are considered doctors and may Mend without penalty.' So on and so forth.

This sounds like a good campaign quality
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 29, 2010, 11:59:44 PM
Too complicated. I'd let the GM handle that. Not that it's not interesting, really, but it is not mechanically significant enough to justify specific (and detailed) rules. If the GM knows the setting (and since this document is only a conversion guide, he better should), he can extrapolate these exceptions himself. But I could mention an example or two in a side note, if necessary ...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on August 30, 2010, 12:30:14 AM
With regards to the Kakita, I noticed that you are using the 1st printing's version of Grace under pressure (probably because it was not changed in the wiki). The extra point may help you choose a replacement for Agile Defense.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 30, 2010, 12:51:26 AM
With regards to the Kakita, I noticed that you are using the 1st printing's version of Grace under pressure (probably because it was not changed in the wiki). The extra point may help you choose a replacement for Agile Defense.

So it's only 3 points?

*EDIT* Incidentally I have the Dragon stuff finished, but i've been dragged off to the in-laws. I'll post it when I get a chance.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 30, 2010, 07:18:16 AM
Dragon Clan Talents

Dragon
The most difficult act in the world is to sit still.
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Strength or Wisdom
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Blankbeard on August 30, 2010, 12:28:58 PM
I zeroed out the old origin creation pages under Fantasy Craft and pointed them at Morgenstern's new version under Mastercraft.  Hopefully, this will cut down on confusion.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 30, 2010, 04:29:31 PM
For Doji and Kakita I suggest swaping charming and agile defense.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 30, 2010, 05:13:05 PM
Path of Nemurani
   Nemurani I: You gain the Charm Binding Basics Feat.
   Nemurani II: You may keep a number of magic items you crafted yourself equal to your Nemurani step without them counting towards the number of prizes you may keep.
   Nemurani III: You gain the Charm Binding Mastery Feat.
   Nemurani IV: You gain the Essence Binding Basics Feat.
   Nemurani V: You gain the Charm Binding Supremacy Feat.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 30, 2010, 11:01:54 PM
For Doji and Kakita I suggest swaping charming and agile defense.

Kakita is done. What would you suggest the Doji get instead of charming?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 30, 2010, 11:49:47 PM
Calling: Gallant & ???
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 31, 2010, 06:00:57 AM
Calling: Gallant & ???

That could be paid for with Iconic Classes: Courtier and... something.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on August 31, 2010, 12:03:23 PM
Calling: Gallant & ???

Paladin?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 31, 2010, 12:41:26 PM
Edgemaster! ;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on August 31, 2010, 01:37:00 PM
Hmm... I think the second Doji Calling should be some form of Talker expert class. Unless I'm missing one, the only one currently available is the Swashbuckler... which isn't too shabby a choice, IMO. There are Doji bushi, after all, and if the Gallant is the Courtier who's taken up the sword, the Swashbuckler could be the bushi who is as adept at winning hearts and minds in the courts with his flashy swordplay and and keen wit as he is fighting duels and wars.

As for a potential second Iconic Class... Sage, perhaps? One of the standard Doji tactics is surrounding their star courtiers with lesser courtier wingmen, and Sage is pretty much the perfect wingman.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on August 31, 2010, 03:02:03 PM
AAAAARRG! (lost a long post to an errant click :()

The Doji have an extra point to assign (if charming were removed), which is why I suggested a calling. I wouldn't put a Iconic Class on them because they have a large number of example characters from at least 5 base classes (Captain, Courtier, Keeper, Lawman, Lancer) and we don't need to create another loose point waiting to be assigned :).

Their developed (experienced) heroes are pretty much evenly distrubuted between pure coutiers, lancer/courtiers, Gallants, and... pure duelists.

"Duelist" is one of those lovely generic words I'd reserve for a Specialty with links to the dueling rules, making it an option for all clans and a right-off-the-bat defining choice for a player character. IF the Doji do get a calling we can probably just flag it as Gallant and "White Sword" for the moment and fill in the class later :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on August 31, 2010, 11:15:34 PM
You sure you don't want to just call it 'Kenshinzen'?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 31, 2010, 11:52:10 PM
Hop, update: http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

I haven't had time to take a loot at it recently, but I should take care of some feats and Specialties soon.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 01, 2010, 02:22:00 AM
You sure you don't want to just call it 'Kenshinzen'?

I'm skirting that... Oh so delicately, but I'm skirting it. The Doji method seems a bit different from the Kakita method when it comes to duels. And it's possible with careful massaging the class could serve several clans that have dedicated duelst themes/characters. 'Kenshinzen' is pretty strongly tied to just Crane.

(its also an amalgamtion of Japanese sylables I'm not entirely comfortable with)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 01, 2010, 06:23:29 AM
I find it vaguely amusing that 'doji' refers to a narrow gap in a daily trading range... so 'dai'doji is a great narrow gap in a daily trading range. Yeah. That makes sense. Someone didn't do the research.

I take it the Dragon stuff is ok, and we can continue the Crane debate while I move onto the Lion?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 01, 2010, 09:25:15 AM
I guess. :)  Can't wait to see what the Lion will look like.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 01, 2010, 11:05:44 PM
It may very well be overpowered, but it was fun writing this one:

BLOOD
Blood I: You may begin or stop bleeding as you wish, the former provided that you possess a readied edged weapon. Each round you take damage from bleeding, your attacks inflict +1 damage.
Blood II: You gain a trick.
Bloody Strike (Attack Trick): If you are using a bleed weapon, your target automatically starts bleeding (save is not rolled).
Blood III: You gain Edged Resistance 4.
Blood IV: You gain the Salt the Wound trick and your Tire actions gain bleed.
Blood V: Your threat range increases by 2 when you attack bleeding characters.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 02, 2010, 12:23:51 AM
CRYSTAL
Crystal I: You gain the Elemental Heritage (Crystal) feat.
Crystal II: Your unarmed and natural attacks gain the keen quality equal to twice your Crystal Step.
Crystal III: You gain the Elemental Legacy (Crystal) feat.
Crystal IV: You gain DR 2.
Crystal V: You may cast Iron Body once per scene.

Variant:
Crystal IV: You gain a new action.
Shards (1 Half Action - Attack Action) : The character makes 1 unarmed attack against 1 target, with a range (!) of 15 ft. x 2.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 02, 2010, 12:58:58 AM
Half that path doesn't make sense: Crystal is not the sort of thing that really says "damage reduction" to me.

Crystal I: Your unarmed and natural attacks gain the keen quality equal to twice your Crystal Step.
Crystal II: You gain the Elemental Heritage (Crystal) feat.
Crystal III: You gain natural defence (lethal damage), which benefits from the first step of this Path.
Crystal IV: You gain the Elemental Legacy (Crystal) feat.
Crystal V: Your natural defence quality gains the bleeding and blast (cone) 5 ft qualities.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Sletchman on September 02, 2010, 01:22:09 AM
I really like the Path of Blood, but I think that Andersen's Path of Crystal makes more sense thematically [and I think it's really good by the by - though I would personally switch Step 1 and 2].
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 02, 2010, 01:32:28 AM
I like the Blood path. That's really thematically cool. Excellent fusion of theme and effects, but you may want to add 'You may begin or stop bleeding as you wish, provided that you possess a readied edged weapon'.

I also like Mr A's crystal variant, and don't think it needs changing.

Now let's see a Path for Air, Earth, Fire, Water and Void... and maybe one for Ancestors too.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 02, 2010, 02:32:37 AM
I really like the Path of Blood, but I think that Andersen's Path of Crystal makes more sense thematically [and I think it's really good by the by - though I would personally switch Step 1 and 2].

You ruin the symmetry of the path doing that, not to mention that many paths don't award a feat until 2nd level
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 02, 2010, 02:35:50 AM
I like the new Crystal Path too, thanks Mister A. Concerning Ancestors, I am kind of running out of ideas. But I stumbled upon Morg's Honor Path, which he designed for the Golden Lion and might, in my opinion, work quite well as an Ancestors Path. What do you think, Scott?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 02, 2010, 02:49:34 AM
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Now let's see a Path for Air, Earth, Fire, Water and Void... and maybe one for Ancestors too.

What;s wrong with the existing elemental paths
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Sletchman on September 02, 2010, 03:06:51 AM
I really like the Path of Blood, but I think that Andersen's Path of Crystal makes more sense thematically [and I think it's really good by the by - though I would personally switch Step 1 and 2].

You ruin the symmetry of the path doing that, not to mention that many paths don't award a feat until 2nd level

Plenty of paths offer feats at first step [in fact none offer a feat at second step in the book], but I do see your point about symmetry and am happy with either way.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on September 02, 2010, 03:35:38 AM
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Now let's see a Path for Air, Earth, Fire, Water and Void... and maybe one for Ancestors too.

What;s wrong with the existing elemental paths

The Paths are fine, they just don't mesh well with the setting. For instance, water is the healing element, but the Path of Water has no healing. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that each element has several themes in them, and it'd be difficult at best to represent every theme in one path. Perhaps one way of doing it is picking the 3/5 best spells appropriate to each step, and let them pick any 1/2 spells?

I've been thinking... maybe make two paths for each element? One restricted only to Priests and consists only of spells, the other more extraordinary abilities, and available to everyone with Blessed (by the Oracles?) And some of the more unusual paths as well... for instance, take Path of Heroism, replace Heroes' Feast with, I dunno, Command II or something, and you'd have a pretty good Path of Thunder.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 02, 2010, 04:01:53 AM
I like many elements of the crystal path, but it needs to work in two aspects. At some point it needs to be able to generate a flash of light (or posibly detect invisible). In Rokugan crystal and the shugenja versed in its use are noteworthy for being able to destroy creatures of shadow (mystic ninjas). Rather than giving you the crystal elemental legacy it should blow the hell out of things with the shadow elemental legacy.

It may be approriate to name the Rokugan-specific path "Path of Holy Crystal" or some other slight adjustment to seperate it from what are otherwise quite servicable (but more setting neutral) "Path of Crystal" ideas.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 02, 2010, 04:08:00 AM
The Paths are fine, they just don't mesh well with the setting. For instance, water is the healing element, but the Path of Water has no healing.

Water is the path of healing mostly in the RPG. In the CCG is it primarily the home of mobility effects. Still, You raise a good point. The alignments could be tuned a little to work some of those other aspects in - not all water weilders would neccessarily be healers, but some alignments with the path of water might also have the path of life or path of Travel in that alignment. I don't want to overly dilute the list, as having and EXTREMLY narrow list of spell choices is one of the things I've always prefered about the CCG presentation of shugenja over the thinly disguised wizards of the RPG. Its one of the reasons I think Priests will do a far more satisfying job of describing shugenja than most spell flinging classes :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 02, 2010, 04:11:36 AM
I like the new Crystal Path too, thanks Mister A. Concerning Ancestors, I am kind of running out of ideas. But I stumbled upon Morg's Honor Path, which he designed for the Golden Lion and might, in my opinion, work quite well as an Ancestors Path. What do you think, Scott?

I have a cunning plan for the Ancestors path. It should take care of ancestors in the setting in general and the Kitsu affinity for them in particular :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 02, 2010, 04:15:25 AM
The alignments could be tuned a little to work some of those other aspects in - not all water weilders would neccessarily be healers, but some alignments with the path of water might also have the path of life or path of Travel in that alignment.
That should be easier and work best with the core rules.
Quote
I have a cunning plan for the Ancestors path. It should take care of ancestors in the setting in general and the Kitsu affinity for them in particular.
Can't wait to see what you've got. But then, the Path of Honor is interesting as well. It would be nice not to forget it entirely (unless the Path of Ancestors borrows elements from it and the Golden Lion rather refers to the latter).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 02, 2010, 04:51:47 AM
I have a cunning plan for the Ancestors path. It should take care of ancestors in the setting in general and the Kitsu affinity for them in particular :).

Uh... hit me up on Skype or something. I'm working on the Kitsu right now. Maybe we can mesh them together?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 02, 2010, 05:12:09 AM
I like many elements of the crystal path, but it needs to work in two aspects. At some point it needs to be able to generate a flash of light (or posibly detect invisible). In Rokugan crystal and the shugenja versed in its use are noteworthy for being able to destroy creatures of shadow (mystic ninjas). Rather than giving you the crystal elemental legacy it should blow the hell out of things with the shadow elemental legacy.

It may be approriate to name the Rokugan-specific path "Path of Holy Crystal" or some other slight adjustment to seperate it from what are otherwise quite servicable (but more setting neutral) "Path of Crystal" ideas.


Path of Holy Crystal
Holy Crystal I: Your unarmed and natural attacks gain the keen quality equal to twice your Crystal Step.
Holy Crystal II: You gain natural defence (flash damage), which deals an additional amount of damage equal to the keen value from the first step of this Path. Additionally, it also inflicts the bleeding condition against opponents with the Elemental Legacy (Darkness) feat or the Darkness or Shadow alignments.
Holy Crystal III: You gain the blindsight ability against opponents with the Elemental Legacy (Darkness) feat or the Darkness or Shadow alignments.
Holy Crystal IV: The keen value of attacks made against opponents with the Elemental Legacy (Darkness) feat or the Darkness or Shadow alignments increases by an amount equal to the higher of the opponent's Blend or Sneak bonuses.
Holy Crystal V: Once per round when an opponent successfully saves against your natural defence quality, you automatically cast Flare as a free action, increasing the save DC by 5. Against against opponents with the Elemental Legacy (Darkness) feat or the Darkness or Shadow alignments, the penalty becomes unnamed.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 02, 2010, 06:46:59 AM
Lion Clan Talents

Lion
You are the epitome of what it is to be Samurai.
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Strength or Charisma
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 02, 2010, 07:10:14 AM
The feat is still in progress, but the path is looking workable.

Path of Ancestors
   Ancestors I: You gain the Ancestral Influence feat. You may select any ancestral benefit, ignoring alignment restrictions.
   Ancestors II: You may turn spirits once per scene per Ancestors step.
   Ancestors III: You and all allies with the Ancestral Influence feat able to see and hear you gain a +2 morale bonus to Defense.
   Ancestors IV: Once per adventure as a free action, you may select an additional benefit from your Ancestral Influence feat (again ignoring alignment restrictions). This benefit lasts unit the end of the current adventure.
   Ancestors V: You may grant the Ancestral Influece feat to each of your teammates until the end of the current adventure. If a teammate already has this feat, he may instead choose a second benefit matching his alignment.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 02, 2010, 07:19:59 AM
This whole project is starting to rock SO hard...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 02, 2010, 07:26:58 AM
Indeed. The Lion are truly superb, all of them! My favorite is maybe ... the Ikoma. :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Khaalis on September 02, 2010, 10:56:31 PM
The feat is still in progress, but the path is looking workable.
Can we get a glimpse of the feat's basics to see where you are going with it?

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 02, 2010, 11:06:28 PM
Hop, update again: http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

Just wondering ... why All-Out Attack and not Rage Basics for the Matsu? They're famed for their berserkers, aren't they?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 02, 2010, 11:17:07 PM
Crab is known for berserkers - Matsu are more of a "commit everything to the kill".

I want to spend a little more time massaging the Ancestral Influence feat. I'm expecting it to be extremely multi-branching like the elemental heritage feat (for example).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on September 02, 2010, 11:47:33 PM
I noticed a slight wrinkle in your obi, Glimmerrat.

Admittedly, I may not have been maintaining the proper distinctness between the Togashi family and Togashi-kami but I was trying to trade Grueling Combatant to the Mirumoto for Split Decision. While comparing point costs in the wiki, I realised that you have been pricing proficiencies inconsistently.

Hida [1] Blunt
Kaiu [1] Siege
Daidoji [.5] Edged
Hitomi [.5] Unarmed
Hoshi [.5] Unarmed
Mirumoto [1] Edged
Togashi [.5] Unarmed
Lion [.5] Bow [.5] Edged

Unarmed I could perhaps justify as only [.5] but the wiki universally assigns a value of 1 to any proficiency or trick. If that is still correct then the Daidoji, Hitomi, Hoshi, Togashi and Lion Clan talent will need tweaked. Otherwise, Hida, Kaiu and Mirumoto are all short half a point (not to mention several from the core book). Also, should Limited Proficiencies be worth a full point if it represents losing two design points?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 03, 2010, 02:28:23 AM
Gomen nasai! *bows several times*  :-[

You are, of course, correct. The costing should be 1 for all of them, and I blame everyone else who has been reading this for not spotting it before you. The mistakes have been corrected.

*EDIT* Now you watch someone else pop up and tell me that the wiki is wrong.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on September 03, 2010, 08:21:19 AM
Do itashimashite! *bows equally low and equally often* This is a great resource which is generating a lot of interest. I'm happy to help in whatever way I can.

*EDIT* Now you watch someone else pop up and tell me that the wiki is wrong.

Well, it does still use the first printing text for Grace under pressure. I suppose I should have flagged that more clearly when you were amending the Kakita.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 03, 2010, 09:11:57 AM
Well, it does still use the first printing text for Grace under pressure.

It does?  ???
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on September 03, 2010, 09:49:00 AM
The wiki version

4 points
• Grace Under Pressure: You gain +3 to any roll you boost with an AD. This bonus increases by 1 at levels 6, 11, 16.

The 2nd Printing version

Grace under Pressure: You gain a +2 bonus with any roll you boost with an action die.

After the errata, Adaptable gained the Mix-up Trick and Savvy received Free Hint. Both are [1], implying that Grace went from [4] to [3] for its reduced effect. I think someone fixed the FC section but not the general MC section that Morgenstern added.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 03, 2010, 11:42:23 AM
Right. Done.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 03, 2010, 05:28:40 PM
My L5R "card of the day" ;D

STYLE FEAT
Telling the Tale
You are able to turn your deeds into stories that will be retold forever.
Prerequisites: Player Character only.
Benefit: Your Legend increases by +1. At the end of each adventure, you may make an Impress check (DC 20 + the adventure’s threat level). If your check is successful, you and each teammate gains 1 Reputation. A character may gain a maximum of 2 Reputation per adventure from any number of characters with this feat.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 03, 2010, 11:23:09 PM
I once caught an Oni THIS BIG! *makes expansive gesture*
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 04, 2010, 11:42:19 AM
"Card of the Day" II  ;D

BASIC COMBAT
Inner Fire
Rise and rise again.
Benefit: Once per scene as a full action you may recover vitality points equal to your Career Level x3 (x5 during dramatic scenes). You also lose all baffled, paralyzed, and/or sprawled conditions. However, you may not apply tricks to your actions for the remainder of the scene.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 04, 2010, 11:31:15 PM
Kakita has been adjusted to:

Kakita
You are the very best at what you do.
[1] • Attributes: +1 to any attribute of your choice, -1 to any other attribute of your choice
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 05, 2010, 08:03:42 AM
L5R Card of the Day III
(I'm thinking I'll try to go a week)

BASIC COMBAT
The Face of my Enemy
The greater the foe, the more glorious the kill!
Benefit: The threat range of your attacks against special characters increases by 1. When you inflict the final, killing damage on a special adversary, you and each teammate with The Face of My Enemy able to see and hear you gain Reputation equal to 1/3 that adversary’s Threat level (round all fractions up). All of your other teammates gain 1 Reputation.

(Everyone, including other characters with this feat, should be rooting for you to make the killing blow. Captains and their teams should love this one - share it with Cadre = Reputation fun for the whole warband :). Also surprisingly good for assassin/ninja characters.)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 05, 2010, 10:54:20 AM
Mantis Clan Talents

Mantis
You may be crude and foul-mouthed, but you sure as hell get the job done.
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Strength or Dexterity
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 05, 2010, 11:23:02 AM
Have you considered the sub-clans as splinter feats rather than talents in their own right?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 05, 2010, 11:50:54 AM
Have you considered the sub-clans as splinter feats rather than talents in their own right?

Yeah I had, but this ain't my thing and I don't wanna step on aegis's toes so really it's up to him.

I actually considered that it might be a thought to have each of the major schools as a feat, such as Moshi Shugenja, Daidoji Harrier, etc.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 06, 2010, 08:16:41 AM
There is an evil little part of me that thinks I could boil most L5R roll-and-keep schools into 3 feat chains...

I'm gonna stick to the card of the day for the moment though :).

Aegis, did you see the stuff about clan distinctions in the 'Beginning a New Tale' thread? Glimmerrat's work there can be ported in pretty much as written :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 06, 2010, 09:25:03 AM
There is an evil little part of me that thinks I could boil most L5R roll-and-keep schools into 3 feat chains...

Yeah, this.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 06, 2010, 10:23:09 AM
There is an evil little part of me that thinks I could boil most L5R roll-and-keep schools into 3 feat chains...
Oooh, yes. If you put pure numerical bonuses aside, there is not much interesting mechanics to extract. Three feat chains, yes, that should do it. But how, I leave that to you ... :P
Aegis, did you see the stuff about clan distinctions in the 'Beginning a New Tale' thread? Glimmerrat's work there can be ported in pretty much as written :).
I did. I was just overwhelmed by an insane amount of work lately, but I'll try to add this and complete what I've said I'd do asap. Maybe tomorrow, maybe by the end of the week. :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 06, 2010, 10:29:20 AM
I assume the Mantis guff was ok?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 06, 2010, 07:11:27 PM
L5R Card of the Day IV
Ok, this was goofy-good fun to make workable ;D. Turns out quite a few of the CCG's "event" cards sound like promising candidates for inspiring Chance feats.

CHANCE FEAT
Glimpse of the Unicorn
To catch a glimpse of the Unicorn is said to grant the greatest of luck. So far you’re a believer.
Benefit: At the beginning of each scene you may roll a d6 with the following results:
1 – You gain a +1 luck bonus to all skill checks until the end of the current scene.
2 – You gain a +2 luck bonus to all saves until the end of the current scene.
3 – You begin each combat this scene with at least 3 Edge.
4 – Your maximum wounds increases by 4 until the end of the scene and you gain 4 wound points.
5 – You gain a +5 luck bonus to the first action die you roll this scene.
6 – Nothing. If you have the Unicorn alignment and this is the first time you have rolled a ‘6’ on this table this scene, you may roll a second time.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 06, 2010, 07:34:34 PM
I assume the Mantis guff was ok?

Some thoughts~
Mantis. Should probably have the +2 Prudence benefit. They are the most cash concious bunch in the setting. Might lower the attribute bump and shed the free origin skill to pay for it.
Mantis. I like the Sailor benefit, but probably should rename it 'sea-worthy so as to not lock down the word sailor (which is a pretty strong choice for a Specialty name). May consider formating these benefits as a feat and then giving them the feat.
Moshi. Its a bit of a cantilever, but you might give them a step on the Path of the Sun - they have very strong ties to Amaterasu and it'll give them a head start in that direction. WIll just hve to make sure that the first step of the path is something other that spell casting so it makes sense for non-shugenja members of the house/clan.
Tsuruchi. Love it (and I'm a Wasp snob  8)).
Yoritomo. Might change the penalty to Wisdom. Big Green did some nutty stuff, but he certainly attracted a loyal following. And some of the other major mantises had epic decents into taint - I think getting a -1 to Will saves (from reduced Wis) will feed that behavior nicely.
Yoritomo. I think improved stability would represent the benefits of their 'sea legs' better than sure footed.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 06, 2010, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: Morgenstern
Mantis. I like the Sailor benefit, but probably should rename it 'sea-worthy so as to not lock down the word sailor (which is a pretty strong choice for a Specialty name). May consider formating these benefits as a feat and then giving them the feat.

That benefit is essentially Pathfinder Basics (aquatic)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 06, 2010, 07:48:20 PM
So it is. Nice. And formating it as a bous feat gives them one more terrain feat which will help if they're trying to get an orrochi for a pet :o.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 06, 2010, 10:41:39 PM
All corrections added. The only one I didn't implement was lowered the Mantis attribute bump - you may notice a recurrent theme in the generic clan talents, and I really wanted to stick with that theme. Everything else was added.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 06, 2010, 10:59:01 PM
Well, Hitomi have 8 points total, I suggest skipping Unbreakable. Hoshi and Togashi are fine, but I miss the Limited Proficiency for Hoshi, that was cool. The rest is fine as far as I can tell.

What about the Path of Crystal? Is the last one devised by Mister A. closer to what it is supposed to represent, or should we look at something closer to the Path of Light actually?

Also, I added Morg's feats to the document. I'll update it as soon as the Mantis are validated (and added).

Do I understand Inner Fire: If you are baffled III and use this feat, you become baffled II, right?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 07, 2010, 12:03:17 AM
It should wipe all levels of baffled. I adjusted the text in post to make that clearer.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 07, 2010, 12:04:43 AM
...you may notice a recurrent theme in the generic clan talents, and I really wanted to stick with that theme.

I appreciate the symetry :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 07, 2010, 12:19:37 AM
Hitomi corrected.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Aziraphale on September 07, 2010, 07:26:23 AM

If you have the Unicorn alignment and this is the first time you have rolled a ‘6’ on this table, you may roll a second time.


Just for clarification. Is this a recurring benefit, as in the first time you roll a 6 on this table for the adventure, or a once off benefit, as in you get it the first time you ever roll a 6 on the table and never again.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 07, 2010, 11:13:19 PM
Rewritten as: Once per scene, if you have the Unicorn Alignment, you may roll a second time.

http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

Added the Mantis and the description of a few more Minor Clans. Also added the Sun to the Mantis Alignement (there were only three anyways). Should be interesting to see if other Paths traditionally associated with elements or shugenja schools, like Life, Destruction, or War, could be added or replace some other Paths here and there.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 07, 2010, 11:45:55 PM
L5R Card of the Day V

MELEE COMBAT FEAT
Unfettered Attack
There’s nothing holding you back now!
Benefit: While you have no teammates or allies within 30 ft. of you, you gain thick hide equal to your honor and may use the following trick.
Unfettered Fury (melee attack trick): If this attack hits, the minimum damage it may inflict is equal to the lower of your Intimidate or Resolve ranks. You may use this trick a number of times per combat equal to the number of Melee Combat feats you have.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 07, 2010, 11:59:40 PM
Ouch. Good job it's a melee attack trick, otherwise I can see a lone Wasp Resolve-monkey doing horrendous damage on each shot without even rolling...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 08, 2010, 01:01:01 AM
Hum, what if the lower of these ranks exceeds the character's maximum damage?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 08, 2010, 01:58:24 AM
Then it does damage equal to the lower of their ranks.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 08, 2010, 03:31:59 AM
Then it does damage equal to the lower of their ranks.

Now you can see why a ninja with a hairpin is so frickin dangerous...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 08, 2010, 06:28:53 AM
L5R CCG card of the day VI

UNARMED COMBAT FEATS
Meditation
Find your center and breathe.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack checks against characters with a lower Wisdom score than yourself. Your maximum vitality increases by the lower of your ranks in Resolve or Search.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Dhampire on September 08, 2010, 08:54:52 AM
There is an evil little part of me that thinks I could boil most L5R roll-and-keep schools into 3 feat chains...

Are you implying a Basics/Mastery/Supremacy chain for Bushi, Courtier, and Shugenja?

I'd really like to see that.  A feat for each school would take care of the differences between them.

Also, having a Feat for each keyword for the CCG personalities (Paragon, Tactician, Cavalry, etc.) would be good.

Just throwing this one out there.  I don't have any idea if it is balanced or not.

Akodo Bushi [Basic Combat Feat]
You are a well-trained member of the Lion Clan, able to strike down any opponent.
Benefit:
When making an attack, you may ignore an amount of your opponents' DR from armor equal to half your class level (round up).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: OverNinja on September 08, 2010, 10:14:32 AM
Akodo Bushi [Basic Combat Feat]
You are a well-trained member of the Lion Clan, able to strike down any opponent.
Benefit:
When making an attack, you may ignore an amount of your opponents' DR from armor equal to half your class level (round up).

That's a bit much, how about 1/3 or 1/4 your level.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Girlfriday on September 08, 2010, 10:19:11 AM
How about your Charisma modifier?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 08, 2010, 10:28:23 PM
The Kakita school is pretty deeply tied to the dueling rules (updated text forthcomming), but I've tried to give them respectable melee combat functionality. Their Supremacy trick will let them one-shot all but the most formidable duelists, bypassing the "minimum number of successess equal to the opponent's starting action dice" with their Mastery ability.

The Mirumoto school is pretty well covered by the two-weapon fighting chain and the cleave chain, but here's the rest of their fun + a few common features of the CCG Mirumoto strung together as a feat chain.

(note - this is the Crane dueling and Dragon melee chains - I'm planning a Crane melee (Doji-based) and a Dragon dueling chain (Mirumoto swordmaster) to balance up these two clans' enduring rivalry.)

(This One Strike feat chain replaces the Iaijutsu chain in the current document)

MELEE COMBAT FEATS
One Strike Basics
You have studied Kakita’s The Sword and begin to comprehend the lessons there in.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1 or higher, Dueling Focus +2 or higher
Benefit: You gain a bonus to your initiative checks equal to your Dueling Focus. During duels, if the results of a dueling check are tied, you gain 1 success. You also gain a trick.
The Sudden Strike (dueling trick): You gain a cumulative +1 bonus to all subsequent dueling checks until the end of the current duel.

One Strike Mastery
Your sensei has taught you to seek… perfection.
Prerequisites: Alignment (Crane Clan), One Strike Basics
Benefit: The number of successes you need to win a duel is always equal to your opponent’s Dueling Focus (minimum 1). You also gain a trick.
One strike, two cuts (katana attack trick): If you hit by 4 or more, you inflict the katana’s damage a second time. If you hit by 10 or more, both damage rolls gain AP 4. You may use this trick once per round.

One Strike Supremacy
Now you know what it is to ‘tread upon the blade’.
Prerequisites: One Strike Mastery
Benefit: You begin each duel with 1 success. You also gain a trick.
Strike with No Thought (dueling trick): Your opponent’s Dueling Focus is reduced by 2 until the end of this duel. You may use this trick once per duel.


Two Heavens Basics
You are a student of the Dragon Clan’s famous two weapons style.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1 or higher
Benefit: If you are armed with both a katana and a wakizashi you gain a +2 bonus to defense. If you have a weapon as a prize, you may keep a second weapon as a prize without it counting against the number of prizes you may keep.

Two Heavens Mastery
Your style relies on fluid action overwhelming rigid forms.
Prerequisites: Alignment (Dragon Clan), Two-Heavens Basics
Benefit: You may apply a +3 magic bonus or –3 magic penalty to any spellcasting check that includes you as a target. Once per round you may anticipate an opponent in a stance as a free action.

Two Heavens Supremacy
When the enemy advances, let him go by.
Prerequisites: Two-Heavens Mastery
Benefit: You gain DR 4 against the attacks of characters in a stance. You also gain a trick.
Sun and Moon Slash (katana attack trick): If you hit by 4 or more and have a wakizashi readied, you inflict the wakizashi’s damage on the target. If you hit by 10 or more, both damage rolls gain bleed.

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 09, 2010, 04:50:11 AM
L5R Card of the Day VII

I thought I'd conclude the week with possibly the most heavily played card in all of the L5R CCG library. Yes, it's good for duelists. It'll be good for generals commanding battlefields too :).

BASIC COMBAT FEATS
Focus
"…"
Benefit: You may use the following trick a number of times per scene equal to your starting action dice.
Perfect Focus (Opposed roll trick): You gain a +5 bonus to this check. If you succeed, you may not use this trick again for the remainder of this scene.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 09, 2010, 07:16:36 AM
Dueling Confrontation
   Dueling is a combat sub-system modeling the explosive violence often seen in samurai drama. While any character is inherently capable of participating in a duel based on their initiative score and Base Attack Bonus, some characters specialize in these types of confrontations.
   Dueling Focus is a new value that measures a character’s practice and preparation for dueling. Characters with at least 1 weapon forte may spend weapon proficiencies to purchase dueling focus. Each proficiency increases the character’s dueling focus by +1.

Conducting the Duel
   If the duel begins outside of combat both participants must roll initiative. The duel is resolved as a series of opposed checks. Before each check, the character with the lower initiative must declare any “complex check”, “dueling” or “opposed roll” trick he will be using with the current check, then the character with the higher initiative may do the same. Both characters then make opposed rolls using their Base Attack Bonus + lowest attribute modifier + dueling focus. The highest roll wins, earning a success. In the event of an exact tie, neither character gains a success. A character may concede at any time, awarding his opponent enough successes to immediately win the duel (see below). Up to two dueling checks are resolved each round and are considered to take place during the initiative count of the duelist with the highest initiative score.
   To win the duel, a character must accumulate a number of successes equal to his opponent’s Dueling Focus or starting action dice, whichever is higher. After earning his final success, the winner may ready 1 or 2 weapons as a free action (if necessary) and immediately gains a half action. If he chooses to attack his opponent with this half action the attack check or checks are considered to be ‘natural 20s’ and he may convert them to critical hits without paying action dice. Unlike most automatic rolls, the winner may boost this roll with action dice.
   In the event that both characters win at the same time, both characters receive the half action and assocated benefits. These actions are resolved simultaneously.
   If either character takes damage from an outside source, the duel is canceled. Interrupting a duel in this fashion is a dishonorable act.

Formal Duels
   Formal duels take place outside of combat, and may be designated as “to first blood” if both participants agree to that condition (otherwise they are always “to the death”). If a character challeneged to a duel has a BAB 5 or more less than the challenger’s BAB, he may request a champion to fight in his stead. The challenged character still shares the fate of his champion.
   A formal duel “to first blood” is satisfied if the winner inflicts any damage at all upon winning, and gracious victors will often forego converting the attack to a critical hit. If an ability reduces this damage to 0, the duel continues as a normal combat until one character inflicts any damage upon the other.
   A formal duel “to the death” will continue with normal combat beginning the following round (assuming the loser is not killed or incapacitated instantly by the critical hit).

Combat Duels
   Combat duels occur spontaneously during normal combat. When a special character is struck with a melee or unarmed attack, he may spend 2 action dice to make a Reflex Save with a DC equal to the attack check. If successful, the attack is canceled and a duel begins between those characters.
   Combat duels end after the winner receives and takes his half action and both characters act normally beginning with the following round.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 09, 2010, 08:08:34 AM
You're a bit on fire today, aren't you?  ;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 09, 2010, 08:19:31 AM
You're a bit on fire today, aren't you?  ;D

Once you've got the framework in place, some adaptations are obvious :). You can probably pull all of the old dueling feats out of the document - I'll rework them to fall in line with the new structure.
 
Putting the alignment requirement on the 'Mastery' feats made so much sense - it keeps the mechanics attached to the 'Basics' feats in the general pool and allows for the many examples in the source material of heroes who have mixed some aspects of another clan's teachings into their legend.

I think I've just about got a skeletal mass combat system functional. Putting meat on it may take a LOT of pouring over the card notebooks though. Its kinda like the dueling rules, but on multiple fronts - its more of a team effort and should involve a whole player group pretty effectively.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 09, 2010, 10:29:18 AM
Since ties on the roll don't count as a success, how can people win simultaneously?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 09, 2010, 12:24:00 PM
Two characters with One Strike Basics can do it with exceptionally awkward timing. There are also a few other CCG card effects that can generate strange ties, so I wanted the general rule in place in case any other combinations became possible.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 09, 2010, 12:47:26 PM
That's a pity, because I  rather like those instances, like in Predators, where both combatants make the killing blow at the same time.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 09, 2010, 12:57:05 PM
If you don't kill them with your hit, you're about to get a massive retaliation. I suppose it could be handled simultaneously >:D...

Adjusted in post and added "complex check" to the list of tricks that apply to duels.

The card "Kharmic Strike" lets you automatically tie in a duel - killing both participants ussually. I think the Dark sword of Bitter Lies (official home of the suicidal Scorpion nut-jubs) school just found the trick for their Basics feat ;).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 09, 2010, 10:53:06 PM
I like it.

I'll have to get around to adding the Phoenix origins asap.

After that it's just Scorpion, Unicorn, Imperial Families and Minor Clans to go.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 09, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

Feats and Dueling rules added. :)

I guess the Kakita and Mirumoto Style feats are kind of obsolete as well, huh? Unless you have some idea to retain their effects within the two new feat chain you're devising.

Can't wait to see the Phoenix! ;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 10, 2010, 01:17:57 AM
A few points about the document:

The Kakita have had calling and iconic classes added - I really don't think they need them.

You still need to remove the old attribute modifiers for the clans I have finished.

Some of the clans haven't had an honor score added.

Otherwise very nice - how did you convert it into a PDF, and how did you make it look so... pretty?  ???
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 10, 2010, 02:52:47 AM
I have Adobe Indesign at work. I shouldn't use it for personal projects but hey, that was purchased with my taxes! :P

I'll investigate the points raised. But about the Kakita, why not Calling and Iconic classes? They're supposed to be mostly excellent swordsmen and artisans if I recall.

Edit: Alright.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 10, 2010, 05:03:26 AM
While the Kakita are good at those things he's modeling the essence of Kakita: to strive for excellence in ANY activity - callings and iconic classes detracts from that by channeling them into limited avenues of progression.

Base Honor for Clans and Families

CRAB 1 - Hida 1, Hiruma 2, Kaiu 1, Kuni 2, Toritaka 2, Yasuki 1
CRANE 2 - Asahina 3, Daidoji 2, Doji 3, Kakita 2, Yasuki 2
DRAGON 2 - Agasha 2, Hitomi 1, Hoshi 2, Kitsuki 3, Mirumoto 2, Tamori 2, Togashi 2
LION 2 - Akodo 2, Ikoma 2, Kitsu 3, Matsu 3
MANTIS 1 - Kitsune 2, Moshi 1, Tsuruchi 1, Yoritomo 1
PHOENIX 2 - Agasha 2, Asako 2, Isawa 3, Shiba 2
SCORPION 1 - Bayushi 1, Shosuro 1, Soshi 1, Yogo 1
UNICORN 2 - Horiuchi 2, Iuchi 2, Moto 2, Shinjo 2, Utaku 3

(best fit looking at every personality card printed for those families prior to the newest edition. Preference given to non-unique card trends over unique card trends, aka the masses rather than the heroes)

I suggest adding a short summary like this as a chart near the honor section along witht he individual entries with each clan and family. A combined chart will help people searching for a family with a particular honor they want to play and may be useful to GMs deciding on the honor/behavior of a newly encountered NPC.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 10, 2010, 08:04:16 AM
While the Kakita are good at those things he's modeling the essence of Kakita: to strive for excellence in ANY activity

Yeah, this. That's what I was trying to model. The Kakita are of the opinion that if you're going to do anything, you may as well be the very best there is at what you do.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: snake on September 10, 2010, 11:25:57 AM
Hi. Just passing and don't know much about L5r but was wondering about the Monsters in the setting.

Does it have Oriental beasties like Tengu (Japanese demons) and Chiang-shih (Chinese vampies) ??
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 10, 2010, 11:39:02 AM
I vaguely recall the notion that inquisitors from the Royal Court were somewhat important to the setting, so someone muight want to tinker with this

Spoiler: My take on Eberron's Master Inquisitive class, for Spycraft • show

     Inquisitor [Master Class]
     As long as sentience has existed intelligent entities have sought answers, a search that only intensifies once they achieve sapience. Many have managed to refine this search to a keen science that peels back the layers of the world’s mysteries. Some have elevated it to an art. You, however, have learnt to embody it.
Party Role: Specialist. Inquisitors are masters of divining truth from fantasy.

     Class Features
     Requirements: Sense Motive 10+ ranks, Black Cat, Breaking Points.
     Favoured Attributes: Wisdom, Intelligence, Charisma
     Class Skills: Analysis, Bureaucracy, Impress, Intimidate, Investigation, Manipulate, Notice, Resolve, Search, Security, Sneak, Streetwise.
     Skill Points: 8 + Int modifier
     Vitality: 1d8 + Con modifier per level

     Class Abilities
     Continuity: Choose 3 class skills from other classes you have levels in to become Inquisitor class skills.
     Flawless Choice: Solving a mystery can sometimes call for dedicated commitment to a particular skill set. At 1st level, select any 2 class skills. Any time you fail a check with these two skills and don’t suffer an error, you still succeed as long as the check DC (or your opponent’s check result) is equal to or less than your class level + 20. If several grades of success are possible, you achieve only the lowest possible positive result. If you gain another Flawless ability from other classes that includes one of your chosen skills, your relevant class levels are added together before you add 20 to determine the DC against which you automatically succeed.
     At 4th level, you may select a 3rd class skill to be covered by this ability.
     Spill It: Maybe it’s because you’re unassuming or perhaps you trigger the memory of some childhood tyrant. At 1st level, once per session, you may spend an action die to cause everyone within CQB distance of you to find themselves incapable of committing any deliberate or intentional falsehood. Each potentially affected creature within the area of effect is allowed a single Will save against a DC equal to your Sense Motive bonus. Failure results in them answering without artifice. Success provides enough self awareness to choose to avoid answering questions to which they would normally respond with a lie, or to be evasive as long as they remain within the boundaries of the truth. Creatures who leave the area are free to speak as they choose, but must make another Will save if they again enter your CQB range. The effect is invoked as a free action and lasts until the end of the scene.
     If You Recall: At 2nd level, you gain the Photographic Memory feat.
     Discern Lies: You’re a human lie detector. At 3rd level, as a free action you may spend and roll an action die. For a number of minutes equal to the result you may concentrate on a single individual within CQB range — including their representation via surveillance device. During this time, you are able to discern if the subject is deliberately and knowingly committing a falsehood. This ability does not reveal the truth, uncover unintentional inaccuracies, or necessarily reveal evasions.
     It’s Elementary: At 4th level, you gain an iteration of the Sleuth class ability of this name.
     Harsh Light of Truth: Though you may not know the evil that lurks in the hearts of men, not much else is capable of escaping your gaze. At 5th level, a number of time per session equal to your Wisdom modifier you may spend and roll an action die. For a number of rounds equal to the result you see all things in the same location as you within your 1st visual range increment as they actually are, seeing through natural and artificial darkness, noticing the presence of secret doors hidden by magic or super-science, divining the exact location of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, seeing invisible creatures or objects normally, seeing through illusions, and discerning the presence of any polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things but not its original form. However, this ability in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent, nor does it negate the effects of concealment of any kind. Any disguised or hidden character must re-roll their check when this ability is used, the error range of the check being increased by your Wisdom modifier, but the new result only applies to the user of this ability.

BAB: Low
Fort: Med
Ref: Med
Will: High
Def: Med
Init: High
Wlth: Med
Gear: Low (Tradecraft, Resource)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 10, 2010, 11:31:41 PM
Hi. Just passing and don't know much about L5r but was wondering about the Monsters in the setting.

Does it have Oriental beasties like Tengu (Japanese demons) and Chiang-shih (Chinese vampies) ??

Japanese demons are called Oni, and yes, there's lots of them in the setting.

Tengu = Kenku, and yes they are in L5R - they're hellgood swordsmen. There's also different types of vampire. Ching Shih are chinese, so not really inherent to the setting, so they use Nukekubi (under the Malaysian name Penanggalan oddly enough).

There's also a slew of the hungry dead, and I love scaring one of my players with a very persistent Onryo.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: snake on September 11, 2010, 05:26:46 AM
Nice. Bet it would be really cool to do a Seven Samurai type adventure with your Ronin etc defending a town vs Oni or Kenku.  :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Dhampire on September 11, 2010, 06:19:17 AM
IIRC, there's a Seven Samurai style story in Rokugan, where 7 Ronin (which is really what all the Samurai in that movie were) defended a village against bandits.

There are also the Khadi, immortal sorcerers who have removed their hearts.  Not quite vampires, but way nasty beings.  Thankfully, they are rare.  Also for GMs, thankfully, most who have the ritual performed on them do not get to keep their own heart, thus putting them at the whim of their master.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: snake on September 11, 2010, 06:57:22 AM
Excellent.  :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 11, 2010, 07:57:42 AM
Nice. Bet it would be really cool to do a Seven Samurai type adventure with your Ronin etc defending a town vs Oni or Kenku.  :)

Kenku tend to be solitary, and, whilst not exactly friendly, they aren't very antagonistic either. They're nearly extinct and just want to be left alone. Oni are VERY tough opponents - i'd tend toward a bakemono swarm, led by an Ogre with an Oni putting them up to it at a safe distance.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 13, 2010, 05:54:38 AM
A little preview of the battlefield rules I'm cooking :). This covers the Hida school (RPG and some common CCG personality benefits). I've seperated out the berserkers who will get their own very seperate feat chain.

BASIC COMBAT FEATS
Iron Mountain Basics
The crab wears its shell well.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1 or higher
Benefit: You suffer no armor check penalties from wearing moderate or full armor. You also gain an advanced action.
The Mountain does not Move (Initiative Action): After taking melee or subdual damage, if you are wearing moderate or full armor you may make a Fortitude save (DC equal to the damage before DR or resistances). With success, the damage you take after DR and resistances drops to exactly 1 (and any special effects from the attack are still felt). You may take this action a number of times per scene equal to the number of Basic Combat feats you have

Iron Mountain Mastery
Persistence is your favorite virtue.
Prerequisites: Alignment (Crab Clan), Iron Mountain Basics
Benefit: The lower of your Strength or Constitution rises by 1. You also gain a trick.
Belligerence (Battlefield and Dueling trick): You may add your Strength modifier or Constitution modifier to this check instead of your lowest attribute modifier.

Iron Mountain Supremacy
Your tireless example inspires your troops to fight on.
Prerequisites: Iron Mountain Mastery, Blunt forte
Benefit: The lower of your Strength or Constitution rises by 2. All troops under your command gain +1 Force each.

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 13, 2010, 06:03:33 AM
We need those distinctions done, or at least a rough cut - I think the ancestor rules will key to them :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 13, 2010, 10:48:34 AM
A little preview of the battlefield rules I'm cooking

Tease.

I think the ancestor rules will key to them :).

The what now?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 13, 2010, 11:19:29 AM
http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

Added these last feats and adjusted the honor values accordingly. I can't wait to see what you've planed for large scale battles and ancestors! Hell I need to find some time to tackle these Specialties!  :-X
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 13, 2010, 04:06:42 PM
I some ways I'm slightly annoyed to have finally come up with a workable mass combat system - I wrestled with the concept quite a while working on FantasyCraft. Unfortunately I was trying to make it non-setting specific and kept crashing and burning almost at the first step: assessing armies. Universal fantasy armies still give me shakes and occasional nose bleeds (I tried, I really did).

Cribbing troop types and some other concepts from the CCG and wedding those to the dueling Confrontation rules has things starting to come together. Still gonna take a few days to build the tables, but I'm hopeful that the core dynamic is sound. Possibly even fun - if you're in to minigames. This is most definitely a mini-game. Hooking it back to NPC types could bring on those shakes again  :-\. If anything the risk is to have too many feats and benfits point to the Battlefield Confrontations because so much of the CCG material points that direciton.

In the Talent description I would list Base Honor first. It lends it a certain amount of weight fitting in the setting, and it lets people who intend to borow the Talents without using the Honor rules ignore it more easily because its not burried in the middle of the bullet points ;D. I would also call out that it's Base Honor - players can still set themselves one level higher or lower.

In the description of Military renown, you can probably eliminate a duplicate by adding "Family Daimyo" at 10 and bumping Daimyo down one.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 13, 2010, 04:19:29 PM
You can directly tie the Seven Samurai to the Rokugan Great clans, I'd have to see it again, but 5 out of 7 are plain as day when you watch it in that mindset.

We also used to play an imagination game with how would a member of each clan or family deal with the test of the guy behind the doorway ready to swing on you as you enter.

("The Crab walks in oblivious to the threat, gets conked on the head, ignores the blow, and gut punches his attacker before proceeding in without further concern or coment on the attack.")
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on September 13, 2010, 04:26:11 PM
What did the other clans do?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 13, 2010, 04:41:17 PM
I don't remember all of the variations we came up with :).

The Bayushi jauntily strolls through the doorway seemingly unconcerned, but as the attacker begins to swing he finds the point of an upthrust wakizashi glinting just below his jaw where he will impale himself if he tries to continue the downwards stroke. Raising his eyes to the Scorpion's face he finds a knowing smirk that says "I've had your job before. Keep practicing." The wakizashi is gone in a smoothly practiced motion and negotiations can begin.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 18, 2010, 01:10:04 AM
Phoenix Clan Talents

Phoenix
You are dedicated to peace, but resolute in the application of violence.
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Intelligence or Wisdom
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 18, 2010, 01:10:25 AM
Apologies for the delay. I've been busy...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 18, 2010, 02:29:38 AM
Someone bring me my whip!

;)

No, seriously, great work. I have been myself way too busy lately. One thing, though: Phoenix totals 8 points.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 18, 2010, 04:48:12 AM
Phoenix totals 8 points.

Sorted.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 18, 2010, 11:30:25 AM
Scorpion Clan Talents

Scorpion
Even when you’re smiling there’s a sting in your tail…
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Dexterity or Charisma
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 18, 2010, 02:28:09 PM
Like the Phoenix Clan quite a bit. The Isawa are wonderfully focused.

Step in is a 2 point ability, I suggest filling the remaining point with~

• Basic Combat Expert: You are considered to have 2 additional Basic Combat feats for any ability based on the number of Basic combat feats you have.

That'll pump up the Combat Focus feat, which is pretty much my take on void points for Fantasy Craft :).

I dig th use of reviled for the scorpions. I hope you paste the Moto with it too ;). On the Bayushi I would drop the attribute modifier (+0/-0) to reflect their tendancy to slam people for having any weaknessess. The extra point could then give them these two .5 goodies.

• Inscrutable: The error range of all sense motive checks targeting you increases by 2.
• Light Sleeper: Sleeping is never a terminal situation for you.

Light sleeper goes well with their always ready mentality :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 18, 2010, 11:38:27 PM
Unicorn Clan Talents

Unicorn
You are a free spirit, blessed with an open mind and uncanny luck.
[2] • Attributes: +2 to lower of Strength or Constitution
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 18, 2010, 11:43:16 PM
Phoenix and Scorpion mods added.

What do you think of the Unicorn?

Just Imperials and Minor Clans to go...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on September 19, 2010, 12:04:38 AM
Amazing work as usual, Glimmerrat. The Phoenix were near perfect and the Scorpion are yet more perfecter still.

A few minor quibbles.

The Soshi's Enlightened Sleight of Hand should be Enlightened Prestidigitation.

No room for I Can Swim? It might not be worth 3 design points but I was curious if you considered it.

Is there any utility in having the Riding Mounts Focus without having the Ride skill? This likely only applies to male Utaku or a PC trying to emulate a member of the Shinjo Striders school. However, granting Ride as an additional origin skill is the same point cost.

More Than Luck is [4].
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 19, 2010, 01:06:02 AM
The Soshi's Enlightened Sleight of Hand should be Enlightened Prestidigitation.

Well spotted - I shall correct it.

No room for I Can Swim? It might not be worth 3 design points but I was curious if you considered it.

I had considered it, but I decided against it. YMMV

Is there any utility in having the Riding Mounts Focus without having the Ride skill? This likely only applies to male Utaku or a PC trying to emulate a member of the Shinjo Striders school. However, granting Ride as an additional origin skill is the same point cost.

Yeah, I think I have to agree with you there. I'll change it when I get five minutes.

More Than Luck is [4].

It's [4] on the wiki. The wiki disagrees with the formatting document that Alex issues to freelancers like me, and since that document indicates it's [3], i'd be more likely to go with that one.  ;)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 19, 2010, 03:23:41 AM
Naga
You are one of the ancient and proud Naga, a people that dwelled in Rokugan long before the fall of the Kami. Most of your people slumber, awaiting the time when they will arise to confront the vile forces of the Foul. You are generally a peaceful soul, but when roused to anger you are a terrible enemy.
You have a humanoid torso that sits atop a long, sinuous tail that resembles that of a great snake. Most of your people have green skin coloration, but you may even be brown or black. Your serpentine eyes and sharp fangs give you a foreign, exotic look.
Common Personality Traits: Aloof, contemplative, misunderstood, mysterious, reserved
Common Physical Traits: Green skin, hissing voice, pronounced fangs, scales, slitted pupils
Example Names: Bhalash, Eshru, Isha, Qarash, Sysh
Splinter Race Feats: Naga Bloodline. Unless you choose this feat, you’re a ‘greensnake’.
[1] Type: Large (1×2) serpentine folk with a reach of 1. Your maximum wounds equal your Constitution score ×1.5 (rounded down).

[3] • Attributes: +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
[1] • Base Speed: 40 ft.
[-2] • Burden of Ages: Your will to live has been worn down by long ages of struggle and you find it difficult to express the fire of the younger species. Any effect that cures or restores your vitality has only 1/2 the normal effect (rounded up).
[1] • Enlightened Survival: Your maximum Survival rank increases to your Career Level + 5. Only the highest bonus from any single enlightened ability may apply to each skill.
[1] • Free Hint: Once per session, you may request a free hint from the GM. If he refuses, you gain 1 bonus action die.
[-1] • Restricted Actions: Kick Attacks, as well as Breed Animal, Train Animal and Ride check you make are considered untrained.
[3] • Taint Resistant: You may never acquire Taint for any reason, and you gain a +2 bonus on saves made to resist Taint-based attacks.


Naga Bloodline
You are part of a rare, dying bloodline.
Prerequisites: Naga, Level 1 only
Benefit: Choose a bloodline.
Asp: Your Strength rises by 1, and you may spit venom (blinding attack II: 20 ft. ray; Will DC 15 or become blinded for 2d6 rounds).
Chameleon: You gain aquatic II and chameleon II.
Cobra: Your Intelligence rises by 2, and whenever you spend an action die you may add your Intelligence modifier to the result. However, your Strength and Dexterity both drop by 2.
Constrictor: You Strength rises by 2, your unarmed attacks gain the grab quality, and you gain squeeze I. However, your Charisma drops by 2 and you gain lumbering.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 19, 2010, 03:29:05 AM
Corrections suggested by Eärendle added.

Also, I got bored of clan stuff, so I did the Naga. *sigh* I guess i'll have to do the Nezumi as well now...  ;)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 19, 2010, 06:41:25 AM
Nezumi
You are one of the rat-like Nezumi, an ancient people whose civilization was destroyed by the fall of Fu-Leng. Although the chittering, thieving and slightly humorous Nezumi of today are a pale shadow of the proud creatures that they once were, many of their tribes still live within the Shadowlands, refusing to leave their old homes behind.
You stand on your hind legs with a hunch, and can easily drop to all fours if necessary to run at high speed. Your skin is pink, but it is covered with shaggy fur and you have a long, pink tail. You also have a pronounced snout and sharp front teeth that can do a lot of damage when you’re in a tight spot.
Common Personality Traits: Furtive, hyperactive, paranoid, simple, twitchy
Common Physical Traits: Patchy fur, prehensile tail, snuffling, squeaky voice, twitching whiskers
Example Names: A’tck, Ik’krt, Ikm’atch-tek, Kan’ok’ticheck, Te’tek’kir
Splinter Race Feats: Nezumi Tribe. Unless you choose this feat, you’re of the ‘tattered ear’ tribe.
Type: Medium bipedal folk with a reach of 1. Your maximum wounds equal your Constitution score.

[1] • Attributes: +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
[1] • Base Speed: 40 ft.
[0.5] • Climbing Claws: You gain a +2 bonus with Climb checks.
[1] • Enlightened Sneak: Your maximum Survival rank increases to your Career Level + 5. Only the highest bonus from any single enlightened ability may apply to each skill.
[0.5] • Iron Gut: You gain a +2 insight bonus with saves against disease and poisons.
[1] • Keen Senses: Your hearing and scent ranges are doubled and you gain a +4 bonus with related Awareness and Perception tests.
[-0.5] • Limited Proficiencies: You begin play with 2 fewer proficiencies (minimum 0).
[1] • Low-Light Vision: You ignore the effects of dim and faint light.
[1] • Natural Attack: You gain the Bite I natural attack (see Fantasy Craft, page 235). If you gain a natural attack from multiple sources, the attack’s grade becomes equal to the highest single grade + 1 per additional benefit granting the same attack, to a maximum of V (e.g. Bite IV, Bite III, and Bite I become Bite V).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 19, 2010, 11:23:59 AM
No room for I Can Swim? It might not be worth 3 design points but I was curious if you considered it.

I had considered it, but I decided against it. YMMV

I think it'll be better as the bonus feat of a Specialty.

You need 2 Utaku Talents... Male and female. They're that radically different. Recomend speed boost for the males. They fight as infantry but do a surprisingly good job of keeping up.

Quote
It's [4] on the wiki. The wiki disagrees with the formatting document that Alex issues to freelancers like me, and since that document indicates it's [3], i'd be more likely to go with that one.  ;)

More than Luck is a Specialty benefit, not a Talent benefit option.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on September 19, 2010, 09:16:14 PM
In point of order, Morg, you recommended Step In for the Shiba and that is a Specialty benefit option.

Unless of course the super secret designer documents have it on both lists.

Decisive, Flashy, Heroism, Paired Skills, and Thrifty have been used as well and are likewise not Talent benefits per the wiki. I understand the wiki is not gospel but it does inform my frame of reference and would be relied upon if I succumb to the notion of drafting LBS factions, for example.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 19, 2010, 09:36:12 PM
In point of order, Morg, you recommended Step In for the Shiba and that is a Specialty benefit option.

Unless of course the super secret designer documents have it on both lists.

Well, the super secret designer didn't worry about being able to step in twice per scene, but worries greaty about being able to have +2 starting action dice :).

Quote
Decisive, Flashy, Heroism, Paired Skills, and Thrifty have been used as well and are likewise not Talent benefits per the wiki. I understand the wiki is not gospel but it does inform my frame of reference and would be relied upon if I succumb to the notion of drafting LBS factions, for example.

We'll let me double check and update the wiki. As you say, it can be hard to determing the Column A ONLY and Column B only stuff where there are several cases of something just not being listed on both sides.

Heroism and Step are fine (and have been added). Decisive and Paired skills should be removed - they generate problems. Flashy and Thrifty are... largely harmless on both sides?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on September 19, 2010, 10:51:25 PM
Flashy and Thrifty actually may be irrelevant in the context of this setting if traditional Rokugani economics are in play. Elsewhere, the worst I currently foresee is a very Thrifty Wizard gaining a couple extra magicks from his Spell Library feat and that is unlikely to derail a campaign.

Is balance the overriding concern in placement of benefits on the lists? Are there guidelines when designing new options that reference things you are versus things that you do? How do you discern at what point a benefit is better suited as a class ability or as the basis for a feat?

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 19, 2010, 11:17:59 PM
I haven't added them all yet (work calling), but I really like it all, including the species! Just another remark, Soshi have the old version of Grace Under Pressure. :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 20, 2010, 05:29:56 AM
Argh! Too much input!  :'(

Ok, lets break this down into manageable steps...

Are the Naga and Nezumi ok?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 20, 2010, 06:38:37 AM
Constrictor is bad-ass. Maybe too much. I'd drop the Str bonus, grab being already powerful... Or maybe simply drop grab, if that's not enough.

I don't like the idea of a PC having feral as in Crippled Bone. It's just a personal opinion, though.

In Green-Green-White, the PC cannot benefit from the circle of power ability, but since sorcery is not used, that shouldn't happen anyway. However, it works for Paths.

Other than that, I think it's alright. I really like those! :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: EmptyOwl on September 20, 2010, 09:44:16 AM
The work being done here is exceptional.  I don't know the system well enough to judge how balanced things are yet, but the quality and application of the conversion seem phenomenal!
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 20, 2010, 09:54:08 AM
Flashy and Thrifty actually may be irrelevant in the context of this setting if traditional Rokugani economics are in play.

Heh. Traditional Rokugani economics are irrational. I'm hoping to to add some historical insight. Not enough to make it "accurate" or even "realistic" but enough to make it "plausible" and interesting to game with

Quote
Elsewhere, the worst I currently foresee is a very Thrifty Wizard gaining a couple extra magicks from his Spell Library feat and that is unlikely to derail a campaign.

Ooo. Nice trace :). I tend to agree that that's an acceptible outcome.

Quote
Is balance the overriding concern in placement of benefits on the lists?
Functionality is the number one concernn - does getting "benefit A" on both sides create a dead bonus? There's a LOT of safety netting in place where getting 2 of the same thing prompts a re-pick (proficiencies, origin skills, feats), but some benefits like enlightened skills don't work well with re-picks so the option can Only occur on one side (Species and Talents for that one).

Balance when double stacked is the next major concern. Hints and Step In don't stack - they are discrete events and having more chances to invoke them is an advantage proportionate to the cost. extra starting action dice on the other hand would be cumulative benefits, and so are first scrutinized, and in that case then prohibited by locking them to one side only (Specialties).

Quote
Are there guidelines when designing new options that reference things you are versus things that you do?

Philosophical guidelines, yes. Some mechanics lend themselves to one side or the other of that divide, but many things can span it. Things representing alternate body-layout like mulit-armed and prehensile tail go in the Species/Talent side, but I could probably explain away the underlying mechanics by changing the name of the benefit.

Quote
How do you discern at what point a benefit is better suited as a class ability or as the basis for a feat?

Gonna have to start a new thread for that one :). It's a rather long chat and not directly pertinent to this thread.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 20, 2010, 09:55:08 AM
Crab: Nothing changed

Crane: Pasted in the amended Kakita

Dragon: Dragon has exchanged Decisive with Always Ready

Lion: Nothing changed

Mantis: Reordered the abilities for Mantis into alphabetical order.

Phoenix: Phoenix have had More than Luck switched out and replaced with Fortunate, and gained Arrow Cutting since it seems spooky and mystical. Asako have swapped Paired Skills for Last Chance.

Scorpion: Generic Scorpion have been rejigged. Soshi have lost Grace Under Pressure and gained Iron Will instead, and the Scorpion have had Decisive replaced with Always Ready. I don't like it but i'll stick with it until I get a better suggestion. Shosuro have had catfall recosted to 0.5, and gained inscrutable.

Unicorn: Unicorn have had More than Luck switched out and replaced with Fortunate - it does the same thing anyway. Also, male and female Unicorn have been differentiated and the Shinjo have lost Paired Skills in exchange for Basic Skill Mastery (horseman). Also, the Naive ability has received an edit (cheers Scott). Horiuchi have just had an overhaul too.

Naga: Constrictors have had weaknesses added.

Nezumi: Green-Green-White have had the reference to circle of power removed.

*EDIT* I'm fairly sure that's everything solved. Unbreakable has been swapped for Sterner Stuff in a lot of builds.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 20, 2010, 02:28:04 PM
I have lovely, horrible idea for the Shosuro school :).

Back soon.

COVERT FEATS

1,000 Masks Basics
Do not act like the character. Be the character.
Prerequisites: 1 or more ranks of Bluff
Benefit: Each time you enjoy a downtime of 1 day or longer you may ‘take on a role’ by choosing an alignment and 2 studies. You may go into and out of character playing that role as a full action. While ‘in character’ you gain the chosen interests and any attempt to determine your alignment reveals the chosen alignment instead of your actual alignment. You may only take on one role at a time.

1,000 Masks Mastery
The mirror asks no questions and offers no lies.
Prerequisites: Alignment (Scorpion Clan), 1,000 Masks Basics
Benefit: When you take on a role you may choose one additional study and a Basics/Mastery/Supremacy feat chain that has your chosen alignment as a prerequisite (typically as part of the “Mastery” feat for Rokugan alignments). While you are in character, you gain the chosen “Basics” feat as a temporary feat if you meet all of its prerequisites other than alignment.

1,000 Masks Supremacy
The secrets of your enemy become your secrets too.
Prerequisites: 1,000 Masks Mastery
Benefit: Once per adventure you and your teammates may spend a total of 5 action dice to allow you to take on a new role as a free action. While you are in character, you also gain the “Mastery” feat you chose for your role as a temporary feat if you meet all of its prerequisites other than alignment.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Big_Jim on September 20, 2010, 02:59:34 PM
Naga need their footprint defined. are they large (2x2) or large (1x2)?

Large (1x2) make the Naga from my Clan War minis usable as is...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 20, 2010, 10:33:54 PM
Naga need their footprint defined. are they large (2x2) or large (1x2)?

Large (1x2) make the Naga from my Clan War minis usable as is...

Done
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Big_Jim on September 20, 2010, 11:45:12 PM
Excellent!  ;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 21, 2010, 10:17:32 AM
Guess what? Updaaate!  ;D

http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

Seems like almost finished. I'm gonna start asking a few illustrators if they would let us use a picture or two to lighten this doc a little bit.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on September 21, 2010, 10:44:26 AM
So, Minors and Imperials, and i'd better do the Ronin families and schools, the Monk Orders and the Shadowlands schools.

Apparently, the Kitsune family have joined the Mantis. Tut.  >:(
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 21, 2010, 10:49:53 AM
So, Minors and Imperials, and i'd better do the Ronin families and schools, the Monk Orders and the Shadowlands schools.

Apparently, the Kitsune family have joined the Mantis. Tut.  >:(

It depends on the time period. I'd expect to list them in both places. Same thing happens with the Agasha and Yasuki. The Yasuki even have some subtle differences depending on where they are listed (the Crane Yasuki have higher base honor).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 21, 2010, 12:57:58 PM
Put some thoughts on battlefields and troops over in a seperate thread. The Iron Mountain school should make more sense after reviewing that.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 22, 2010, 02:39:04 AM
Soooo nice job! I love the concept, but I still have a hard time picturing what such a battle will look like in my head. Shall I add this to the doc, maybe with an example? We now need Akodo tactician feats! ;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 22, 2010, 03:03:33 AM
Soooo nice job! I love the concept, but I still have a hard time picturing what such a battle will look like in my head. Shall I add this to the doc, maybe with an example? We now need Akodo tactician feats! ;D

I'd leave it out for the moment - the text is still growing and changing pretty quickly as I figure out what all I can extract from the CCG and minis game.

But more feats with duel and battlefield benefits are almost certian to follow :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on September 22, 2010, 05:27:10 AM
True, as soon as I have spare time again, I shall look into this (after the promised specialties and elemental feats!). Also, I should already add an example duel confrontation. Soon, I hope ...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on November 16, 2010, 11:11:50 PM
*poke*

Any more progress on this? Especially with the new tools from the Adventure Companion?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on November 17, 2010, 01:15:18 AM
Hem, don't think so. :P  The AC is not going to change much in this document. I still have a few feats (including Morg's to add) before completion. And concerning Talents, I guess glimmerrat has been a little bit short on time lately.

If you read this glim, can you resume anytime soon or should I do the rest?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on November 17, 2010, 10:54:10 PM
Hem, don't think so. :P  The AC is not going to change much in this document. I still have a few feats (including Morg's to add) before completion. And concerning Talents, I guess glimmerrat has been a little bit short on time lately.

If you read this glim, can you resume anytime soon or should I do the rest?

I'll crack on. I've been kinda busy with a few things Pat and Alex have asked me to do, but now that it's all done I can turn my hand back to this.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on November 17, 2010, 11:33:44 PM
Imperial Family Talents

Miya
The Miya family are the Emperor’s voice in distant lands.
[1] • Attributes: +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on November 21, 2010, 11:16:17 PM
Added! I'll update the document soon. By the way, didn't you forget the Toturi?  ;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: glimmerrat on November 22, 2010, 01:53:52 AM
Added! I'll update the document soon. By the way, didn't you forget the Toturi?  ;D

No! They suck!
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on November 23, 2010, 11:09:14 PM
Hop, here it is: http://www.le-scriptorium.com/uploads/file/Aides_de_jeu/Mastercraft/l5r_conversion_guide.pdf

Morg asked me to add the kensai feat chain, but I'll ask Gentry first (since it is featured on Wyrmstone).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Wolfx on November 24, 2010, 05:08:23 AM
I only glanced through it but it looks amazing. I thought it was Hare Clan (not Hase Clane), but I could be mistaken.

Any plans on including material from the Burning Sands?

Aric
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Eärendle on November 26, 2010, 08:45:31 AM
I did some work on the LBS factions before the Adventurer's Companion was released. I'll review them and post the updated versions this weekend.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Wolfx on November 30, 2010, 04:09:12 AM
I did some work on the LBS factions before the Adventurer's Companion was released. I'll review them and post the updated versions this weekend.

Look forward to seeing this.

Thanks
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on December 28, 2010, 12:04:01 AM
Added! I'll update the document soon. By the way, didn't you forget the Toturi?  ;D
No! They suck!

Realistically, they're all Akodo. Naseru fostered out to the Hantei and might be considered ot have their Talent.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 16, 2011, 02:32:02 PM
Card of the Day time!

RANGED COMBAT FEAT

Honor’s Hope
May righteousness guide my aim!
Prerequisites: Honor 2+
Benefit: Each time you destroy a unit with your heroic barrage, you earn 1 Reputation (see Battlefield Confrontations). You also gain a trick.
Honor’s Arrow (bow attack trick): If the target character has a lower Honor than you, your attack inflicts additional damage equal to your honor and the threat range is increased by 1. If this attack kills a special adversary you earn 1 Reputation.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 17, 2011, 04:35:59 PM
Card of the Day will be slightly delayed - I had to make a working 'tattoo magic' system for it to slot into, but the results were good fun :)

TATTOO FEATS

Ancient Inks
You have been tattooed with the blood of a god. The consequences can be… unexpected.
Benefit: Your highest attribute rises by 1 and your lowest attribute decreases by 1. When taking the Basic Skill Mastery feat you have access to a new skill pair: Strange Fate (Athletics & Bluff). Finally, roll twice on the following table and add those benefits to your Specialty (re-roll any duplicate results).
1 – Agile Defense: Your base defense increases by 1.
2 – Broad Learning: You gain 2 additional study Interests.
3 – Charming: Once per session, you may improve the disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
4 – Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict an additional +1 damage.
5 – Thick Hide 2: You are considered to be wearing partial armor that provides Damage Reduction 2. This damage reduction does not stack with other armor (only the best protection applies while wearing additional armor).
6 – Unarmed Proficiency: You gain the Unarmed proficiency.

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on January 17, 2011, 11:14:35 PM
Oooo, love it! I'll add that to the document soonish. I'm just wondering whether I should put Battlefield Confrontations in it or make it a separate, generic game aid. Same question for your dueling rules ...  ::)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 17, 2011, 11:17:19 PM
I would go ahead and fold both confrontations in. Rokugan is sort of the test case for the battlefield stuff and a number of the feats are going to reference one or the other of those two rulesets.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Aldus Vertten on January 18, 2011, 12:26:47 AM
I've added Honor's Hope to the document i made for the Battelfield Confrontation  (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcCbTQOUV9J1ZGc5N2I3cmpfMjk4Y2c1czVmZ2I&hl=en&authkey=CP2Niv4I)rules. I think i have everything there...

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on January 18, 2011, 12:38:12 AM
Nice. I'll put a link then!  8)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 18, 2011, 11:15:21 AM
I've added Honor's Hope to the document i made for the Battelfield Confrontation  (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcCbTQOUV9J1ZGc5N2I3cmpfMjk4Y2c1czVmZ2I&hl=en&authkey=CP2Niv4I)rules. I think i have everything there...

I do need to get back to that (to at least add a few general setting more troop types). Unfortunately I never heard back from anyone that they tried to run a battle with it. Theorycraft is good, but I'd love to get some testing reports.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 18, 2011, 02:25:53 PM
Card of the Day time :)

TATTOO FEATS

Wasp Tattoo
You bear the image of the stinging warrior.
Prerequisites: Ancient Inks
Benefit: As long as you have at least one hand free and empty you may make bow attacks as if you were armed with a short bow. You are always considered to have standard arrows available for this bow, but may fire other ammunition normally. If you fire this bow without using other ammunition, the arrows dissipate without a trace after striking or missing the target.
Further, your Tattoo feats count towards the number of Ranged combat feats you have.

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Sletchman on January 18, 2011, 04:17:54 PM
TATTOO FEATS

Ancient Inks
You have been tattooed with the blood of a god. The consequences can be… unexpected.
Benefit: Your highest attribute rises by 1 and your lowest attribute decreases by 1. When taking the Basic Skill Mastery feat you have access to a new skill pair: Strange Fate (Athletics & Bluff). Finally, roll twice on the following table and add those benefits to your Specialty (re-roll any duplicate results).
1 – Agile Defense: Your base defense increases by 1.
2 – Broad Learning: You gain 2 additional study Interests.
3 – Charming: Once per session, you may improve the disposition of any 1 non-adversary NPC by 5.
4 – Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict an additional +1 damage.
5 – Thick Hide 2: You are considered to be wearing partial armor that provides Damage Reduction 2. This damage reduction does not stack with other armor (only the best protection applies while wearing additional armor).
6 – Unarmed Proficiency: You gain the Unarmed proficiency.

While I dig the concept, I'm not a fan of random results in character generation - do you think it would be an issue to make it "pick 2 of the following"?

I also really dig the Wasp Tattoo, awesome work.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 18, 2011, 04:28:37 PM
With the ise zumi and other tattooed monks of the setting, there's about a one-in-ten chance the newly tattooed just goes mad (sometimes quietly, sometimes ravingly so). For the Rokugan setting I would consider the random elements of this feat important in the same way the max +1 min -1 is important: this process acts differently on each person subjected to it.

...But if you were porting it to some other setting where that bit of style is not important, I don't see selecting them as a problem, so long as the character doesn't double up within the feat or with any existing benefits of their specialty.

I'm planning to do several specialties that have been sugested by the cards (tattooed monk, storm rider, battle maiden), so I think Ancient Ink will be even more entertaining in context as the bonus feat for Tattooed Monk.

Wasp Tattoo made me pretty happy too ;D.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 19, 2011, 10:59:44 AM
I need some NPC mojo for a couple of things I'm working up. Anyone want to take a stab at these?

Otaku Warhorse (65 XP) - Horse-like Beast with 6 Int. Needs to be slightly faster than a normal warhorse, have a decen slam or other melee attack and really, really hard to kill (some attention to saves). Also needs instruction on how it "advances" when it goes up to 70, 75, and 80 XP... that is three specific 5 XP bundles being added to it in a set order.

Orochi (65 XP) - Sea serpent Beast 8 Int, and 8 Wisdom, capable of slow (20 ft) movement on land. Rage feat(s) encouraged. Modest Bite for squishy targets (secondry attack), some kind of full-body hug for smashing vehicles/scenery (primary combat contribution). Again, somewhat physically rugged so opponents are inclined to go after the rider rather than the mount. Should be a bit vulnerable to taunt. Same advancement notes as the warhorse.

These are going to take up the Personal Lietenat slot on characters that have them, not Animal Partner.

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 19, 2011, 12:50:30 PM
Card of the Day!

I drew something really intriguing from the pile, but its gonna take me a bit longer to build the basic structure (recon actions!). ...So, I'm wimping out and filling in something obvious using the last few days' materials :P.

NEW SPECIALTIES

Tattooed Monk
Several monastic orders supplement the strength of their teaching with the power of mystic tattoos. These monks bring an unpredictable but potent blend of insight and violence.
Requirements: Alignment (Dragon, Order of Shinsei, or Spider)

•   Bonus Feat: Ancient Ink
•   Attribute Training: The lower of your Strength or Wisdom increases by 1 (your choice in the case of a tie). This bonus is applied after any attribute modifiers from your Species or Talent.
•   Contagion Sense: You may roll twice when making Fortitude saves prompted by a disease or poison, keeping the result you prefer.
•   Free Hint: Once per session, you may request a free hint from the GM. If he refuses, you gain 1 bonus action die.
•   Heroism: You gain a +1 bonus with all attack and skill checks you make during dramatic scenes.
•   Unarmed Proficiency: You gain the Unarmed proficiency.


Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 19, 2011, 06:00:58 PM
(http://telltaleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/galtar-thumb.jpg)

     Otaku Warhorse (Large Walking Beast — 65 XP). Str 14, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 6; SZ L (1×2, Reach 1); Spd 60 ft. ground; Init IV; Atk IV; Def V; Res V; Health IV; Comp II; Skills: Athletics V, Notice III; Qualities: Cagey I, damage defiance (bows, edged) fearless I, improved stability, tough I
     Attacks/Weapons: Chomp! (Gore I: dmg 1d8+2 lethal; threat 19–20, qual: bleed), Kick II (dmg 1d8+2 lethal; threat 19–20), Trample I (dmg 1d10+2 lethal; threat 20; Medium and smaller only, Fort (DC equal to damage) or become sprawled)

@70: Lifeline
@75: Fortunes of War I, Health V, Res VI
@80: Cagey II, Fortunes of War II, Kick III
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 19, 2011, 11:53:07 PM
That's a mean horse. May not need the gore, and I'd like the competence to be II. The advancements are evil :).

(what's damage defiance (piercing)?)

Best art for the feel of the Orochi is here~
http://l5rshop.com/images/cards/TempestIslandInitiate.jpg
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 20, 2011, 12:38:27 AM
That's a mean horse. May not need the gore, and I'd like the competence to be II. The advancements are evil :).

(what's damage defiance (piercing)?)

Pretty much a D&Dism for Bows, the thinking being that a hard-to-kill species with horns would likely have evolved some degree of tolerance for the sort of damage they inflict. I've updated it -- Gore I, Comp II, Def V.

If you decide to not have horns (which would be a pity), you can either just make it a bite attack instead.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on January 20, 2011, 12:40:13 AM
Clean and Spotless: You may roll twice when making Fortitude saves prompted by a disease or poison, keeping the result you prefer.
That's Contagion Sense, isn't it?

Hard to make a really tough beast with only 65 XP but let's try ...

Orochi (Huge Beast Walker - 65 XP): Str 14, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 10; SZ H (1x6, Reach 2); Spd 20 ft. ground; Init I; Atk III; Def V; Res IV; Health VI; Comp I; Skills: Athletics V; Qualities: Aquatic II, cold-blooded, darkvision I, fearless I, feat (Rage Basics), grueling combatant, impaired senses (hearing, scent), improved stability, lumbering, monstrous defense I, superior swimmer III, tough I
Attacks/Weapons: Bite I (1d12+2 lethal; threat 20), Trample IV (2d12+2 lethal; threat 18-20)
Treasure: 1T

+5 XP: battering, fearless II, sterner stuff
+10 XP: knockback, never outnumbered, superior swimmer IV
+15 XP: +1 Size, tough II
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 20, 2011, 01:22:23 AM
If you decide to not have horns (which would be a pity), you can either just make it a bite attack instead.

Otaku warhorse are just really good horses in setting. I'm playing a little loose in stating them as beasts :). Leave it gore. Those who understand will laugh really hard.

Yes, that's contagion sense. Good eye. Fixed in post.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 20, 2011, 02:01:00 AM
Well, looking at the damage code for bite, I think it works better if you keep it a gore attack (1d8+bleed, thr 19-20) and just call it a bite attack

     Orochi (Huge Amphibious Swimmer — 65 XP): Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 6; SZ L (1×6, Reach 3); Spd 60 ft. swim, 20 ft. land; Init III; Atk V; Def IV; Res V; Health IV; Comp II; Skills: Athletics V, Notice III, Survival III; Qualities: Aquatic II, Damage defiance (unarmed), tough I
     Attacks/Weapons: Bite I (dmg 1d12+2 lethal, threat 18–20, upgrades: grab), Squeeze I (dmg 2d8+2 lethal, thr 20), Tail Slap I (dmg 1d12+2 lethal; threat 20; upgrades: grab)

@70: Lifeline
@75: Cagey I, Damage defiance (edged), Fortunes of War I
@80: Cagey II, Fortunes of War II, Health V, Res VI
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: SilvercatMoonpaw on January 20, 2011, 06:24:36 AM
Where is that picture from?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 20, 2011, 06:42:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPLiSrKRWrg
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 21, 2011, 04:13:01 PM
More Card of the Day!

Next week should be a theme week, but this was another random draw from the pile :).

GEAR FEATS

Gempuku Ceremony
The day you first swore fealty to you lord was a celebration that will be long remembered!
Prerequisites: Level 1 Only, Alignment (any)
Benefit: You receive a weapon from your lord or family (either a katana or a weapon of the same type as your alignment’s ritual weapon) with up to 2 essences of your choice and a maximum total Reputation value of 15. This weapon is a Prize.
Choose a base class. As long as you have more levels in that base class than any other base class, the Disposition of any character sharing your alignment increases by 2 and you may keep 1 additional weapon as Prize without it counting against the number of Prizes you may keep.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Sletchman on January 21, 2011, 05:53:42 PM
Sweet.  I was pondering ancestral weapons just this morning.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 21, 2011, 07:50:05 PM
Hmmm. I can totally see that feat being the first step on certain paths
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 21, 2011, 08:01:18 PM
Sweet.  I was pondering ancestral weapons just this morning.

It's kinda a simple ancestral item, but using only essences it doesn't escalate which makes balanceing it a LOT easier.

I finally (finally!!) cracked ancestors in a way I think is rich and balanced, but I wanted to give Alex right of first refusal before I post it. Its got "get the GM and players involved in their world building" potential not too far short of Constellation magic.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 21, 2011, 08:02:37 PM
Hmmm. I can totally see that feat being the first step on certain paths

Yeah. It could be quite useful in that role. In the hands of a priest it makes a straightforward prize + bonus with your own faithful. What's not to like?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 21, 2011, 08:14:17 PM
Already planning on putting it into play as the basis for a legendary item in Gatac's Shinobi game

Katana, exotic melee damage (divine), greater damage resistance (ranged), base class: priest
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 21, 2011, 08:59:47 PM
You might find this useful as a family crest

(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfeqtxS6141qg8xz9o1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 21, 2011, 10:42:25 PM
Heehee. Bats :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 21, 2011, 10:46:41 PM
Already planning on putting it into play as the basis for a legendary item in Gatac's Shinobi game

Katana, exotic melee damage (divine), greater damage resistance (ranged), base class: priest

The greater damage resistance appears over budget - it's 15 all by itself.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 21, 2011, 10:53:52 PM
Already planning on putting it into play as the basis for a legendary item in Gatac's Shinobi game

Katana, exotic melee damage (divine), greater damage resistance (ranged), base class: priest

The greater damage resistance appears over budget - it's 15 all by itself.

-5 for being a 1-handed weapon.

To my mind, the DRes basically manifests itself as just an awesome amount of arrow cutting and deflecting projectiles off the blade -- hmm, now there's a thought for lightabers -- so totally fitting in with the Sweeper levels the character has
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: MikeS on January 22, 2011, 10:23:27 AM
Where does the -5 for 1-handed come from? I'm looking to build a katana myself, but I couldn't find this modifier in the rulebook.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on January 22, 2011, 10:34:14 AM
Page 195, under the essences and charms table.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 23, 2011, 01:12:19 AM
Given that I forgot the 1-hand, 2-hand cost modifiers would come into play, I'm glad I picked a low base number ::).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 26, 2011, 02:54:06 AM
Card of the Day - Week of the Orochi, round 1!

I'm doing fun with our scaley green friends this week. With 6  Orochi personalities, 3 storm-rider personalities, 2 storm-rider follower cards, and 2 Orochi-specific action cards its quite a bundle of linked concepts :)!

So lets get right into the teeth of the storm!

NEW SPECIALTY

Storm-Rider
You are one of the companions chosen and trained to go to war perched atop the mighty Orochi
Requirements: Alignment (Mantis)

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 27, 2011, 06:10:50 AM
Sorry, small delay as I deal with some insanity relating to my old car. I'll try to put up the completed bundle for the week by late friday :).

(I'm also mulling over the math for bonus paths - stay tuned!)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 27, 2011, 10:01:10 PM
Orochi week - round 2

Ok, this I'm pretty pleased with ;D.

TERRAIN FEATS

Reef-Breaker Basics
None can stand against the fury of the storm for long!
Prerequisites: Personal Lieutenant (Orochi)
Benefits: You gain a +4 bonus to Swim checks and add the Path of the Orochi to the Paths associated with your alignment (if any). Your Orochi’s natural attacks inflict double damage on all scenery and objects.

Reef-Breaker Mastery
Here's the secret: grab on tight and don’t let go!
Prerequisites: Reef-breaker Basics
Benefits: You may hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to your Constitution score and are immune to turning by Orochi. Your Orochi’s Threat Level increases by 1 (maximum 20).

Reef-Breaker Supremacy
No matter how this ends, it will be glorious!
Prerequisites: Reef-Breaker Mastery
Benefits: You may replace your Orochi lieutenant without paying the reputation cost if your Orochi dies during a dramatic scene. Your Orochi may pay 1 action die to turn Medium-sized or smaller folk, and may do so any number of times per scene.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on January 27, 2011, 10:14:58 PM
Which raises the question of which flavour of Oriochi you went with.

Also, Captains with Orichi are going to be sick -- and if I read this correctly a straight Captai will effectively have have a TL 15 sidekick at level 14
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 27, 2011, 10:29:46 PM
Which raises the question of which flavour of Oriochi you went with.

I'm planning to create a hybrid utilizing some of the tricks and ideas showcased in the two suggested here (yes, lifeline is fiendish). Hopefully my try will be posted along with the path tomorrow to wrap up Orochi week :). Mechanically either of the ones offered earlier should be sound with this feat chain.

Quote
Also, Captains with Orochi are going to be sick -- and if I read this correctly a straight Captain will effectively have have a TL 15 sidekick at level 14

I had the captain gamebreaker carefuly in mind - "Number One" sets the Lt's threat level to to CL -1, so the Orochi with this feat chain would be equal to you CL. The max 20 verbage is just future proofing against something unforseen comming down the pipe later. The +5 XP is really just evening thimgs up a bit since this chain does not typically contribute to the Personal Lieutenant feat (except for those lucky captains).

Edit: In the end I reasigned the feats to the terrain tree to avoid the issue and balance out the strong class choices to go along with this theme to include Scouts as much as Captains and Lancers (amusingly, courtiers also rock as Storm Riders... "You have a good point, but a friend of mine wishes to raise an objection... *RAAAARRRRR!*")
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on January 30, 2011, 04:00:36 AM
Week of the Orochi - Round 3

I use a slightly exploded stat block for ease of reading :).

Sidebar: The Orochi
Orochi are spectacular sea serpents freed from the spirit realms by secret Mantis magic. While they are sometimes turned loose without supervision, they are far more effective when paired with a brave human rider who can both sooth and direct their fury for the benefit of the clan.

When an Orochi is taken as a Personal Lieutenant, the player character must be eligible to select a lieutenant worth at least 65 XP. Further, the Orochi may only be improved as outlined in the Advancement section until the player may choose/create a lieutenant worth up to 100 XP. Beyond that, the player may improve the statistics of his Orochi as he sees fit (with GM approval, of course).

Orochi (Huge Beast Swimmer - 65 XP)
Attributes: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8
Size H (1x6, Reach 2)
Speed 50 ft. Swim; 20 ft. ground
Statistics: Init II; Atk IV; Def IV; Res IV; Health V
Skills: Competence I; Athletics V, Notice III, Survival III
Qualities: Aquatic II, feat (Rage Basics), impaired senses (hearing, scent), lumbering, monstrous defense I, tough I
Attacks/Weapons:
“Great Jaws” Bite I + Grab (dmg 1d12+2 lethal, threat 18–20; grab)
“Thrashing Bulk” Slam I (dmg 1d10+2 lethal, threat 20)
“Whipping tail” Tail Slap I (dmg 1d12+2 lethal; threat 20)
“Down the Hatch!” Swallow I (dmg 2d8+2 lethal)
Advancement:
70 XP – Gain Qualities: Cagey I, Fortunes of War I, grueling combatant
75 XP – Gain Qualities: Fearless II, sterner stuff
80 XP – Health VI; Gain Quality: Feat (Rage Mastery); Gain Attack: “Crushing Mass” Slam I (dmg 1d10+2 lethal, threat 20)
85 XP – Competence II; Gain Qualities: knockback, never outnumbered
90 XP – Gain Quality: Lifeline
95 XP – Gain Quality: Tough II
100 XP – Gain Qualities: Cagey II, Damage defiance (unarmed), Fortunes of War II
Treasure: 1T (Non-lieutenant Only)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Mister Andersen on February 09, 2011, 06:38:44 PM
More Card of the Day!

Next week should be a theme week, but this was another random draw from the pile :).

GEAR FEATS

Gempuku Ceremony
The day you first swore fealty to you lord was a celebration that will be long remembered!
Prerequisites: Level 1 Only, Alignment (any)
Benefit: You receive a weapon from your lord or family (either a katana or a weapon of the same type as your alignment’s ritual weapon) with up to 2 essences of your choice and a maximum total Reputation value of 15. This weapon is a Prize.
Choose a base class. As long as you have more levels in that base class than any other base class, the Disposition of any character sharing your alignment increases by 2 and you may keep 1 additional weapon as Prize without it counting against the number of Prizes you may keep.

Paired Jitte, acid damage + greater npc quality (rend). A pseudo 2-weapon style (effectively a double hit or hit/disarm technique), the acid damage representing the lingering effects of precisely aimed blows
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on February 09, 2011, 09:30:03 PM
Nice. Scorpion rough-housing :).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on August 16, 2011, 04:19:18 AM
Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
I didn't realize it was such a long time ago! Anyway, as I recently read the fourth edition of L5R, I was drawn to this excellent setting again. And if I started working on it again, I wanted to finish the conversion guide during these holidays. And since I have a non-English-speaking friend who was very interested in it as well ...

Well, to sum up, I've finished a 31-page guide in French. It re-uses many of the ideas we've written down here, simplifies a few, and sadly eliminates quite many options that were just taking too much space (including the very nice but countless family Talents). I'm considering using it as a starting point, a "minimal package" to play the game. Then, it can be enhanced with an "expanded guide" which will contain more options and details. I'll try to re-translate it into English asap, so that you guys can use it - and improve it - too.  :)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Coyote0273 on October 13, 2011, 06:45:38 PM
How was the translation coming, Aegis? I've got some friends who might be interested in this setting if it was done.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: aegis on October 16, 2011, 12:58:03 AM
On hold for now. I have a few things to finish first, including MassCraft v2.0, and then it's next on my list.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 27, 2015, 06:36:58 PM
  Card of the Day~

(http://l5rshop.com/images/cards/8xyPU2.jpg)

  A Lion’s Roar
  The Lion believe that honor succeeds where the dishonorable stumble.
  Prerequisites: Honor 3+
  Benefit: When you hit a character with equal or lower Honor you may shout out your battlecry. If you do roll 1d6 twice, keeping the lower result. You suffer that much subdual damage that cannot be reduced or resisted and gain a bonus to your damage roll equal to that much + your Honor.
  Battlefield: You gain a trick.
  Roaring Lion (Reliable Battlefield Trick): You carry out a strike with a Force equal to your Honor. Add +2 Force if you have the Tactician feat. You become spent.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 28, 2015, 02:29:44 PM
Card of the Day~

(http://l5rshop.com/images/cards/gohx.jpg)

Skeletal Troops
Undead Infantry (250)
Force: 2
Traits/Strategies: Fear 3; -2 Respect penalty
Glory/Cost: 1/2
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 29, 2015, 02:53:08 PM
Card of the day~

(http://l5rshop.com/images/cards/ftxo.jpg)

Plague Zombies
Undead Infantry (500)
Force: 4
Traits/Strategies: Fear 3, -4 Respect penalty
Glory/Cost: 0/5
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 30, 2015, 10:31:55 AM
Card of the day~

(http://l5rshop.com/images/cards/HidaTenshu.jpg)(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/15737_zpsf5q0shph.jpg~original) (http://s165.photobucket.com/user/MorgensternX/media/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/15737_zpsf5q0shph.jpg.html)
(http://l5rshop.com/images/cards/Berzerkers_Charge.jpg)(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Hida%20Amoro%202_zps2psycdkg.jpg~original) (http://s165.photobucket.com/user/MorgensternX/media/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Hida%20Amoro%202_zps2psycdkg.jpg.html)

DEATH-MONGER
  Seed Class
  The Death-Monger is a grim warrior gone too far down dark paths. A paragon of personal ferocity and unpredictable violence, the Death-Monger is bound to amass a stunning kill count... among foes and friends alike. Those he slays come to serve him even after death, a rotting, shambling army of dammed souls.

  Party Role: Combatant/Campaigner. You are a brute with an undead edge. Fearsome in personal combat, you also amass a horde of the unliving to serve you in larger battles.

  Class Features
  Favored Attributes: Constitution
  Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Intimidate, Notice, Resolve, Ride, Tactics
  Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier per level
  Vitality: 12 + Con modifier per level
  Starting Proficiencies: 6

Core Ability
  Black Beast: Your Constitution rises by 2 and you may add your Constitution modifier in place of your Strength modifier when making melee and unarmed damage rolls. However, you may not keep any form of armor as a prize.

Class Abilities
  Death Rage: At Level 1, after each successful hit with a single-target melee or unarmed attack you make you must repeat that attack on a second, different character if possible using the same attack check, tricks if any, and damage roll results. These repeat attacks gain +1 reach and do not trigger additional repeat attacks. If there are no enemies or bystanders within reach choose a target from amongst your allies within reach. If you spent Edge or action dice on the initial attack, those effects also apply to the repeated attack.
  Also, your Force increases by +4 but any time you lose a battle or win a battle where you army had less than double the other army’s Force at the end of the battle, all troops in your command are slaughtered.
  The Black Touch: At Level 2, you gain the undead type and cannot have non-undead units in your command. You begin each scene with your maximum Wounds and each time you kill an enemy or bystander you recover wounds equal to your Constitution modifier. You also gain a unit of plague zombies for your command without reputation cost. This unit immediately reforms or is replaced after each battle at no cost.
  (You are immune to diseases, poisons, and sneak attack damage unless the source specifically affects Undead. You do not recover Wounds over time without being healed/repaired. Damage from 'shadow' effects heals you and healing from 'light' effects damages you. While you may eat, you gain no benefits from food or drink. You do not age, sleep, or breathe.)
  Bone March: At Level 3, each time you kill a folk character you gain a standard skeleton I as a companion to maximum number of companions equal to your class level (see page 116). The skeleton has no equipment save that which you provide. The skeleton acts entirely according to your wishes while in your line of sight and will take no other actions except to return to your presence when not so controlled. If it cannot do so within a number of minutes equal to your class level it crumbles to dust. You also may add any number of skeleton troops to your command without Reputation cost (up to the maximum number of units your command may include). These units immediately reform or are replaced after each battle at no cost.
  Unmasking the Fear: At Level 4, you may turn non-undead up to twice per scene. Afterwards you may continue to turn non-undead by spending 2 action dice each time you do so. You also gain a trick.
  Berserker’s Charge (persistent fear battlefield trick): Reduce the Force of an enemy leader by your force (minimum 0).
  The Dark Road Back: At Level 5, your Force increases by +1 and the companions created with your Bone March ability are now skeleton II’s . Once per adventure if your teammates have your body at the end of a scene in which you died you cheat death without penalty.

Table CotD.1: The Death-monger
Lvl  BAB  Fort  Ref  Will  Def  Init  LS Lgnd  Abilities
 1    +1   +2    +2   +0    +0   +1   +0   +1  Black Beast, Death Rage
 2    +2   +3    +3   +0    +1   +1   +0   +1  The Black Touch
 3    +3   +3    +3   +1    +1   +2   +1   +2  Bone March
 4    +4   +4    +4   +1    +2   +2   +1   +2  Unmasking the Fear
 5    +5   +4    +4   +1    +2   +3   +1   +3  The Dark Road Back


Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on September 30, 2015, 01:26:58 PM
That's fascinating.

Hmm, I'm curious though as to how Death Rage works if the Death Monger is mounted?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on September 30, 2015, 01:34:27 PM
If memory serves, Seed classes are supposed to be the opposite of Master classes? Something for concepts that are starting character appropriate but too much or a Specialty and too little for a Base class?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on September 30, 2015, 01:39:17 PM
Hmm. So... they're what you take at 1st level or around there instead of a base class..?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 30, 2015, 03:02:31 PM
If memory serves, Seed classes are supposed to be the opposite of Master classes? Something for concepts that are starting character appropriate but too much for a Specialty and too little for a Base class?

  Pretty much. They are essentially 5 level Base classes. You can start in them or multi-class to them. Big difference (which you should see with the Death-monger as "Hida Amoro week" plays out :)) is that the level 3 and 5 abilities may be unique. With 5 levels they're long enough you could blow through one and then move on to Expert Classes without ever have a traditional 20 level base class in your adventuring DNA.

  They also represent an interesting way to combat feat tree bloat. They help lock down some mechanics in a way that if you aren't in the class you don't need to be knowledgeable about the option for things like floating feats.

Hmm. So... they're what you take at 1st level or around there instead of a base class..?

  They provide additional options at career level 1, yes.

That's fascinating.

Hmm, I'm curious though as to how Death Rage works if the Death Monger is mounted?

  I'd expect the composite mounted-character gains the effect - only one attack per round and if it/they hit with a melee or unarmed attack the attack is copied to a second target.

  And I imagine your allies would back way up when that poo starts flying.   ;D
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on September 30, 2015, 03:09:10 PM
So how does Death Rage's attack restriction work with Cleave effects?

By my reading it's compatible as the limit to taking one attack action doesn't state there can't be secondary effects as those aren't chosen as part of the one attack limit. They are an outcome that can happen, not one that must happen.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 30, 2015, 03:20:19 PM
  The prospect of a Death-monger spewing cleaves is hilarious enough to make me avert my eyes (and maybe hold up a plastic tarp to avoid getting caught in the crimson fire hose).

  However its probably for the best to lock it down to one attack action per round (including free actions). Stick with their own native cleave effect and call it a (lovely) day.

  Yeah, rescripted. Now with MOAR BUCKETS O' BLOOD!!
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on September 30, 2015, 04:10:25 PM
Oh, that's fucking awesome.
If you Cleave you keep tagging new targets as long as new targets are possible as your follow up attacks start requiring resolution -BUT because Free Attacks can't trigger Free Attacks....

Wait, now I'm a little confused. Let's game this out.

I attack target A; A survives so I attack B. Straight forward. If all survive, turn over.

If B dies I Follow Up back to A who survives and then I also Cleave A - and if A survives, that ends the turn.

But if A dies at any point after B dies I have to find a C to Cleave if I can, and does that Cleave trigger a follow-up?

And can I choose to spend any additional strikes on previous targets? I get that follow ups must always be on new targets -if A's alone I can't just hit A again- but if I hit A and B and kill B, I can Cleave A but have to follow up on a C if possible?

SLAY ALL THE THINGS! >:D

edited for more thoughts.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 30, 2015, 04:25:50 PM
  Cleave Basics' bonus attack are (deliberately) NOT "free attacks" and therefore can spawn cascading death.

Quote
CLEAVE BASICS
  With just a taste of blood, your blade’s thirst becomes legendary.
  Benefit: Once per round, when one of your melee attacks kills an opponent or knocks him out, you may immediately make another Standard Attack with the same weapon as a free action.


Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on September 30, 2015, 04:35:32 PM
Ah.

So a Cleave can trigger a Death Rage follow-up, but it can only do so a number of times specified by the number of allowed Cleaves.

One Cleave, one follow up, boom done because follow-ups can't trigger follow-ups, right?

Look, I get how that must seem obvious :P but humor me so I stop wondering if this isn't a long-form of "make one attack roll against any viable target within Reach and then repeat that sequence at Reach +1 until everything's been attacked at least once" like a Death-Monger's basic attack is a version of the Spiral Cutter Greatsword trick.

And for clarification the follow-up does not benefit from anything that's not on that list, right? So if the DM later gets some form of Arcane Strike that channels a spell into the first attack the follow-up doesn't also automatically get the channel?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 30, 2015, 04:45:00 PM
Ah.

So a Cleave can trigger a Death Rage follow-up, but it can only do so a number of times specified by the number of allowed Cleaves.

One Cleave, one follow up, boom done because follow-ups can't trigger follow-ups, right?

Look, I get how that must seem obvious :P but humor me so I stop wondering if this isn't a long-form of "make one attack roll against any viable target within Reach and then repeat that sequence at Reach +1 until everything's been attacked at least once" like a Death-Monger's basic attack is a version of the Spiral Cutter Greatsword trick.

And for clarification the follow-up does not benefit from anything that's not on that list, right? So if the DM later gets some form of Arcane Strike that channels a spell into the first attack the follow-up doesn't also automatically get the channel?

  I'll clarify the copies don't trigger more copying :). Referring to a second attack rather than additional attack was meant to point to this but it can be more explicit. A copy killing someone would trigger a cleave. So you could end up stretching out a sequence of attacks quite a bit with the two effects feeding on each other.

  The copy attack does copy the original attack's trick. Depending on how the "channeled effect" is structured it might or might not duplicate that too.

  Edit: touched up Death Rage text for greater clarity.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on September 30, 2015, 04:51:38 PM
Thanks, of course. :)

For clarification on my part assume the channeled spell is literally "cast Lightning Bolt through sword as part of a melee attack once per round. Uses up 1 Lightning Bolt token."

Would it fire twice and would it fire twice if the caster didn't have enough tokens?

Edit: ah. I think the question really is "does Death Rage allow once a round attacks to be repeated?"
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on September 30, 2015, 05:14:13 PM
Oh, and my original question about a DM being mounted was about asking "is the mount in use a viable target for a repeat attack?"

Like literally so berzerk you kill the horse you're riding. :o
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on September 30, 2015, 05:37:44 PM
Oh, and my original question about a DM being mounted was about asking "is the mount in use a viable target for a repeat attack?"

Like literally so berzerk you kill the horse you're riding. :o

  ...Tempting...   >:D

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 01, 2015, 07:56:29 PM
  Card of the day~

(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/15737_zpsf5q0shph.jpg~original) (http://s165.photobucket.com/user/MorgensternX/media/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/15737_zpsf5q0shph.jpg.html)

  Hida Amoro week continues. Updates in the Death-Monger post on the previous page. (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg159131#msg159131)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on October 02, 2015, 02:10:16 AM
 :o
Huh.
Didn't see that coming.

For The Black Touch could the DM have a non-Undead PL?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Antilles on October 02, 2015, 03:00:41 AM
So... this dude in front, carving a bloody swathe and creating an impromptu skeleton army, a necromancer (well) behind for buffs/support/raising more undead? Oh dear...
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on October 02, 2015, 03:41:48 AM
Actually my idea was a bodyguard. 8)

In X setting a DM is a person blessed by the God of Death at birth and who is sent to a monastery for isolation and training. Upon graduation they're released in the presence of a bodyguard who's job is to get the Death-Monger to their glorious immolation without him/her getting bogged down in butchering villagers because someone spilled gruel on their sandals.

The Bodyguard is the voice of reason, throws the first punch to keep the Death-Monger in check when less than apocalyptic violence is required, and generally acts as the shield of sanity for the cursed berserker.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 02, 2015, 04:27:36 AM
:o
Huh.
Didn't see that coming.

  This is a dark ride.

Quote
For The Black Touch could the DM have a non-Undead PL?

  Personal lieutenant is so deep in negotiated with the GM territory to begin with I don't see any reason to add additional restrictions to it here. And while that is one of my favorite Mark Tedin pieces of all time, The Black Touch doesn't specify you gain the horror type, so again there's room for interpretation in campaigns where the Death-Monger is allowed at all.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 02, 2015, 04:35:54 AM
So... this dude in front, carving a bloody swathe and creating an impromptu skeleton army, a necromancer (well) behind for buffs/support/raising more undead? Oh dear...

  That's pretty close to how it went down in the storyline. Amoro had an amulet from the premier necromancer of his age that gave him troops that would put up with his indiscriminate rage. Eventually he lost control of them and joined their ranks. Afterwards he remained their leader in the service of the original necromancer.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: TKDB on October 02, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
I'm a little confused about the reminder text on The Black Touch; it doesn't really match up with the undead type benefits in the book at all. The contagion immunity and not healing wounds or eating/sleeping/breathing is the same, but it's missing a whole slew of other effects undead normally have, and adds sneak attack immunity (which undead normally lack).

Is this class meant to work with a houseruled variant set of undead traits? If a campaign generally uses the regular rules for undead, would the class ability need to be reframed as having the Deathmonger be treated as undead for type-targeting effects but otherwise not gaining the usual effects of that type but rather the effects noted in the reminder text?
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 02, 2015, 03:33:11 PM
  Oh, sorry, yeah that's the streamlined undead type I've been using lately. I'd say go with your preference for the death-monger - what's there or the standard package. (I should add the shadow/light effects though :)).

Card of the day~

(http://l5rshop.com/images/cards/Berzerkers_Charge.jpg)

  Hida Amoro week continues. Updates in the Death-Monger class. (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg159131#msg159131)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 04, 2015, 01:11:21 AM
  Card of the day~

(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Hida%20Amoro%202_zps2psycdkg.jpg~original)

  Hida Amoro Week concludes with the final ability of the Death-Monger class. (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg159131#msg159131)
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 10, 2015, 06:49:15 AM
  Card of the Day~

(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Matsu%20Gohei%20Imperial_zpskehcyqsn.jpg~original)(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Matsu%20Gohei%20Exp%201_zpsdliaapqc.jpg~original)

  Possibly the most important card ever printed in L5R. Matsu Gohei's stat line has appeared/been reprinted no less than FIVE times over the life of the game and is the quintessential Matsu attacker responsible for more second turn province destruction than any other threat in the game. This is the face of war in Rokugan.

RAMPANT LION
  Seed Class
  In a great house known for its unrelenting ferocity the Rampant Lion epitomizes the philosophy of ‘strike first so that there is no second strike’.
  In your campaign, a Rampant Lion could be…
•   A young samurai in search of a glorious destiny
•   A mounted knight leading every charge
•   A daring standard bearer leading troops to the crucial engagement
•   A light-footed scout, herald of the overwhelming attack to come
•   The last thing many an oni or goblin will ever see

  Party Role: Combatant/Campaigner. While you may start out simply a brash warrior willing to risk all, that drive gains nuance and purpose as time goes on.

Class Features
  Requirements: Alignment
  Favored Attributes: Strength
  Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Impress, Intimidate, Notice, Resolve, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Survival
  Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier
  Vitality: 9 + Con modifier per level
  Starting Weapon Proficiencies: 5

Core Ability
  Point of the Spear: Your Strength rises by 1. You gain +20 ft. base speed on foot or when mounted and may ready up to one spear without the lightweight quality as if it were a 1-handed weapon.

Class Abilities
  Dare to Strike: At Level 1, your Force rises by 2 when you are in an attacking army. At the start of your Initiative Count you may accept a penalty to your defense up to –4 to gain an insight bonus with melee damage rolls equal to that number until the start of your next Initiative Count. When you accept a –4 penalty to defense your attacks also gains +2 threat range.

  Gather the Pride: At Level 2, each round you may ignore one enemy while moving, passing by or moving through them without restriction. Your allies able to see and hear you may pass by or move through all enemies as long as each square they enter is closer to you than the square they are leaving and the final square they enter is unoccupied.

  Butcher the Vile: At Level 3, Your Force rises by 1. Your Force rises by an additional 2 when there are tainted or dishonored commanders in the opposing army. Your attacks gain +2 threat range against characters that are tainted or dishonored.

  Charge like Lions: At Level 4, you gain the Charging Basics feat. If you accept a –4 penalty to defense and charge in the same round you gain 4 Fervor.

  Judgment of the Pride: At Level 5, once per scene when you hit an enemy you may gain 10 execute damage for each ally that shares your alignment or teammate adjacent to your target (up to 50).
  (Execute damage is added to your normal damage when attacking characters IF the added damage would be enough to defeat the character.)

Table L.XX: The Rampant Lion
Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Def Init LS Lgnd Abilities
 1   +1  +0   +0  +2   +1  +2  +0  +1  Dare to Strike, Point of the Spear
 2   +2  +0   +0  +3   +1  +3  +0  +1  Gather the Pride
 3   +3  +1   +1  +3   +2  +4  +1  +2  Butcher the Vile
 4   +4  +1   +1  +4   +2  +5  +1  +2  Charge like Lions
 5   +5  +1   +1  +4   +3  +5  +1  +3  Judgment of the Pride

Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on October 10, 2015, 06:29:05 PM
Spirits damned Matsus...

Signed,

The Naga.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Valentina on October 10, 2015, 09:42:03 PM
Spirits damned Matsus...

Signed,

The Naga.

Hey, when it's time to destroy and destroy right whether or not it's wrong who's better?

Morg: I actually had a copy of Gohei in my wallet for the quote. He was a favorite of Shadow's as well.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 10, 2015, 10:07:13 PM
Spirits damned Matsus...

Signed,

The Naga.

You raise an interesting point.

Hey, when it's time to destroy and destroy right whether or not it's wrong who's better?

Morg: I actually had a copy of Gohei in my wallet for the quote. He was a favorite of Shadow's as well.

  Funny. He's certainly had an impact before - The official Lionheart feats and the Golden Lion class are certainly aware of Matsu-esque influences (both being good follow-on choices for a character in this seed class). But this week we look directly at the cheap little first round striker.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Krensky on October 10, 2015, 10:46:55 PM
Spirits damned Matsus...

Signed,

The Naga.

You raise an interesting point.

Mostly that, as I played my Naga decks, I found they worked best in a multiplayer game with the other players ignoring me for a few turns.
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 12, 2015, 12:42:50 AM
  Card of the day~

(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Matsu%20Aoiko%20Base_zps4iizf1r7.jpg~original)(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Matsu%20Aoiko%20Exp%201_zpsycomxugu.jpg~original)

  Gohei's granddaughter not only shared his stat line initially, she went on to be a deadly commander in her own right. Her one-two punch of gathering up Lions then murdering the heck out of a single unlucky foe gives us both the second and final Rampant Lion class abilities (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg159442#msg159442).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 13, 2015, 12:56:39 AM
  Card of the Day~

(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Matsu%20Gohei%20Exp%201_zpsdliaapqc.jpg~original)

  Matsu Gohei's Experinced version became a fiend for wrecking ignoble houses and the Empire's eternal foes in the Shadowlands (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg159442#msg159442).
Title: Re: [Setting conversion] Rokugan
Post by: Morgenstern on October 14, 2015, 05:13:15 AM
  Card of the Day~

(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/MorgensternX/Legend%20of%20the%20Five%20Rings%20Cards/Charge_zpsc6qdtdlo.jpg~original)

  The original lion-clan specific card, still kicking in doors (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg159442#msg159442) after all these years.