Crafty Games Forum

Products => Spycraft Third Edition => Topic started by: tenebrae on March 16, 2010, 01:49:46 AM

Title: Existing Lines
Post by: tenebrae on March 16, 2010, 01:49:46 AM
Just wondering what the future of Spycraft 3 will hold for the 2.0 lines that aren't completed yet (specifically Spellbound, but perhaps including Origin of the Species, etc.)?

I presume further titles won't be published for 2.0, so will these lines be moved to 3, or sideways to Fantasy Craft, or made for generic Mastercraft?
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: tenebrae on March 16, 2010, 01:52:04 AM
Just found my own answer in the State of the Company on the wiki (http://www.crafty-games.com/node/1013).

Quote from: Fantasy Craft section
Soon after will come Spellbound, your gateway to ultimate magic power: hundreds of new Fantasy Craft spells organized together with those from the core book to create the definitive grimoire for all casters. Also included are eight unique classes, one dedicated to each of the eight schools of magic, plus new feats, campaign qualities, and guidance to enhance arcane and divine magic in your games.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 02:02:18 AM
Spellbound's becoming a self-contained print/PDF product for Fantasy Craft. That makes it a Mastercraft product, so it'll be fully compatible with Spycraft Third Edition.

All the remaining products we have planned for Spycraft 2.0 are mentioned in the State of the Company (namely, the rest of the Saturday Morning Spycraft series and the rest of the World on Fire run).
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: starwarsphil on March 16, 2010, 02:42:19 AM
I've probably missed some small print that says this in the State of the Company but is Gear and Gadgets SC3.0 only?

Phil
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 02:56:25 AM
I've probably missed some small print that says this in the State of the Company but is Gear and Gadgets SC3.0 only?

It's for Spycraft Third and Ten Thousand Bullets (i.e. modern Mastercraft).
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Trigger on March 16, 2010, 06:08:25 AM
So after the summer there will be no new releases for Spycraft 2.0?  Only material for 3.0 which can be used in 2.0?
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Sletchman on March 16, 2010, 06:23:17 AM
Are you lads planning a future update document for 2.0 pdf's?  To keep using saturday morning spycraft next year for instance.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Stratos on March 16, 2010, 06:24:43 AM
So after the summer there will be no new releases for Spycraft 2.0?  Only material for 3.0 which can be used in 2.0?

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for but I'll plug it anyways: Music will continue to release weekly and it's compatible for all versions of Spycraft although we'll be releasing it in conjunction with the release of Third Edition.  If time allows, I even hope to release some songs specifically for the Saturday Morning series as those are the shows I grew up on and still love today.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 06:30:13 AM
So after the summer there will be no new releases for Spycraft 2.0?

That's correct.

Quote
Only material for 3.0 which can be used in 2.0?

Spycraft Third, Ten Thousand Bullets, and Fantasy Craft, being Mastercraft products, will be completely compatible with each other. Spycraft 2.0 is a separate system, though one that's pretty similar. We like to say that Spycraft 2.0 and Mastercraft are "portable" to each other - in that some rules will work fluidly and others won't.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 06:33:10 AM
Are you lads planning a future update document for 2.0 pdf's?  To keep using saturday morning spycraft next year for instance.

If the question is whether we're planning to release official conversion material from Spycraft 2.0 to Spycraft Third, then the answer is, sadly, no. It's just not feasible for us to do that and focus on the new products that everyone craves. We are not, however, opposed to unofficial conversion material, and in fact have a forum that's tailor-made for it (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?board=11.0) (among other things).
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Trigger on March 16, 2010, 06:45:27 AM
Thanks for the clarification Pat. 

And thanks for the answer to the other question about Crafty not doing a official convertion of all the Spycraft 2.0 PDF's to 3rd edition.

I see this is where the path divides in playing Spycraft.  Either play Spycraft 2.0 with all the supporting 2.0 PDF's and the 2.0 line will be done after summer, or move onto Spycraft 3.0 with a whole new line of material yet to come down the line.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Alex on March 16, 2010, 06:52:05 AM
I see this is where the path divides in playing Spycraft.  Either play Spycraft 2.0 with all the supporting 2.0 PDF's and the 2.0 line will be done after summer, or move onto Spycraft 3.0 with a whole new line of material yet to come down the line.

Sort of :). As we've seen with the boards in the aftermath of Fantasy Craft, conversion of 2.0 material  to Mastercraft has not been nearly as arduous as it was from 1.0 to 2.0. But you're right in that we simply don't have the resources to support two seperate versions of Spycraft at the same time.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Trigger on March 16, 2010, 06:58:22 AM
I see this is where the path divides in playing Spycraft.  Either play Spycraft 2.0 with all the supporting 2.0 PDF's and the 2.0 line will be done after summer, or move onto Spycraft 3.0 with a whole new line of material yet to come down the line.

Sort of :). As we've seen with the boards in the aftermath of Fantasy Craft, conversion of 2.0 material  to Mastercraft has not been nearly as arduous as it was from 1.0 to 2.0. But you're right in that we simply don't have the resources to support two seperate versions of Spycraft at the same time.


Thanks Alex.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Sletchman on March 16, 2010, 07:11:14 AM
Are you lads planning a future update document for 2.0 pdf's?  To keep using saturday morning spycraft next year for instance.

If the question is whether we're planning to release official conversion material from Spycraft 2.0 to Spycraft Third, then the answer is, sadly, no. It's just not feasible for us to do that and focus on the new products that everyone craves. We are not, however, opposed to unofficial conversion material, and in fact have a forum that's tailor-made for it (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?board=11.0) (among other things).

Shan't be a problem.  I look forward to figuring out how to convert and add the bits and pieces that don't make it into 3.0.  From experiance so far [OoTS: Classic fantasy -> FC, Spellbound, a few classes from 2.0 -> FC] it's looking pretty straightforward, as Alex said.  I've actually been looking forward to this since the first announcement of Mastercraft as a unified system, back in mid '08.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 07:12:00 AM
That's the spirit T! :)
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Trigger on March 16, 2010, 07:38:27 AM
Pat can you list like a couple things that 3rd will not have that 2.0 does, or vice versa, Just to see what a couple main differences are in determining what Spycraft ship to sail?
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 08:08:05 AM
Pat can you list like a couple things that 3rd will not have that 2.0 does, or vice versa, Just to see what a couple main differences are in determining what Spycraft ship to sail?

Too early to start listing features - and besides, there's still plenty of time for us to change our mind on something. No need to confuse folks by announcing design points that may vary in print! :)
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: pawsplay on March 16, 2010, 08:25:10 AM
buh? I knew getting SP 2.0 in the Haiti bundle seemed fishy! You rascals. :) Well, time to revise the Amazon list...
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 08:36:38 AM
buh? I knew getting SP 2.0 in the Haiti bundle seemed fishy! You rascals. :) Well, time to revise the Amazon list...

You got 2.0 in the Haiti bundle?
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: pawsplay on March 16, 2010, 09:07:36 AM
buh? I knew getting SP 2.0 in the Haiti bundle seemed fishy! You rascals. :) Well, time to revise the Amazon list...

You got 2.0 in the Haiti bundle?

No, wait, I'm insane. :) I got it during the GM's day sale.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Trigger on March 16, 2010, 10:26:10 AM
Pat can you list like a couple things that 3rd will not have that 2.0 does, or vice versa, Just to see what a couple main differences are in determining what Spycraft ship to sail?

Too early to start listing features - and besides, there's still plenty of time for us to change our mind on something. No need to confuse folks by announcing design points that may vary in print! :)
Ok...Can you sell me then with one statement why I should jump over to SC 3.0.  (and don't just say it's better   ;D )
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 10:29:23 AM
Ok...Can you sell me then with one statement why I should jump over to SC 3.0.  (and don't just say it's better   ;D )

Just one statement? It's Mastercraft, and the ultimate espionage RPG.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Desertpuma on March 16, 2010, 10:34:07 AM
It will contain universal simplicity allowing you to cross multiple genres in the context of one system but primarily being focused on modern day espionage.

(as examples of other systems that have done so include GURPS and Palladium, especially RIFTS)
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Trigger on March 16, 2010, 12:18:00 PM
Ok...Can you sell me then with one statement why I should jump over to SC 3.0.  (and don't just say it's better   ;D )

Just one statement? It's Mastercraft, and the ultimate espionage RPG.
Ok Pat, was looking for something a little more concrete then your opinion of your own product.  ;)

I was kinda being serious with the question.  looking for something like "Its way simpler than 2.0 Trigger and your group will certainly get everything out of SC 3.0 like your group does in 2.0 because SC 3.0 does....[fill in blank]"
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Wolverine on March 16, 2010, 12:35:49 PM
Ok...Can you sell me then with one statement why I should jump over to SC 3.0.  (and don't just say it's better   ;D )

How about 'the Gear chapter won't make your eyes bleed'?

Or 'you'll be able to combine it with Fantasy Craft and have your agents go up against a villainous SCA-like organisation'?
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: gaghiel42 on March 16, 2010, 01:53:22 PM
Or 'you'll be able to combine it with Fantasy Craft and have your agents go up against a villainous SCA-like organisation'?

*sold*
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Charlie_X on March 16, 2010, 04:40:03 PM
Personally I want some techie steampunk goodness and FF-tech in my fantasy campaign, so the more potential crossover the better.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Doublebond on March 16, 2010, 06:27:08 PM
I would have to agree. I know it's a while off, but the sooner MC gets a Steampunk supplement the sooner I'd...do something? I dunno. I'd certainly buy it, at least.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: pawsplay on March 16, 2010, 07:14:10 PM
Pat can you list like a couple things that 3rd will not have that 2.0 does, or vice versa, Just to see what a couple main differences are in determining what Spycraft ship to sail?

Too early to start listing features - and besides, there's still plenty of time for us to change our mind on something. No need to confuse folks by announcing design points that may vary in print! :)
Ok...Can you sell me then with one statement why I should jump over to SC 3.0.  (and don't just say it's better   ;D )

All the cool kids are doing it.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Number Three on March 16, 2010, 09:02:49 PM
Ok...Can you sell me then with one statement why I should jump over to SC 3.0.  (and don't just say it's better   ;D )

How about, "less skills to worry about, and overall a system that is less complex than SC2 without losing the core qualities that make it one of the most flexible and resilient engines in d20"?

It's the gear system I may or may not be able to sell you on.  It's essentially Cash & Carry + Prizes + a system for acquiring things that aren't normally sold with Reputation.  You know how Resource and Gadget picks sort of drop off the planet with Cash & Carry?  All prime suspects for Reputation purchase, which means your players now have something to do with their reputation.  :D

How about 'the Gear chapter won't make your eyes bleed'?

Oh, come on.  Only in the first printing did the Gear chapter make your eyes bleed (and your brain leak out your ears, and... no, Pat, we're never going to let you live that one down.  ;) )
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: TheAuldGrump on March 16, 2010, 10:00:29 PM
Ok...Can you sell me then with one statement why I should jump over to SC 3.0.  (and don't just say it's better   ;D )

How about 'the Gear chapter won't make your eyes bleed'?

Or 'you'll be able to combine it with Fantasy Craft and have your agents go up against a villainous SCA-like organisation'?
Except that the Gear system in second printing SC is actually pretty easy on both the eyes and the brain, and is a better system in many ways than the Forge in FC.... (In part because it is not trying to cram 3,000 years of equipment into a single chapter....)

The Auld Grump
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 16, 2010, 11:23:29 PM
I was kinda being serious with the question.  looking for something like "Its way simpler than 2.0 Trigger and your group will certainly get everything out of SC 3.0 like your group does in 2.0 because SC 3.0 does....[fill in blank]"

I know you were, and honestly, I can't answer your question. The book's a year out. So much of its content could change between now and then that even what we have settled now isn't certain. This isn't the time for us to sell you on this edition - it's the time to talk about what you liked about 2.0 and what you didn't. That's what will give us the data we need to decide the bits and pieces that aren't in the can yet, and hopefully make the game everyone wants, and just as importantly, needs.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Trigger on March 17, 2010, 05:52:22 AM
I was kinda being serious with the question.  looking for something like "Its way simpler than 2.0 Trigger and your group will certainly get everything out of SC 3.0 like your group does in 2.0 because SC 3.0 does....[fill in blank]"

I know you were, and honestly, I can't answer your question. The book's a year out. So much of its content could change between now and then that even what we have settled now isn't certain. This isn't the time for us to sell you on this edition - it's the time to talk about what you liked about 2.0 and what you didn't. That's what will give us the data we need to decide the bits and pieces that aren't in the can yet, and hopefully make the game everyone wants, and just as importantly, needs.
Understandable Pat.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: MilitiaJim on March 17, 2010, 09:29:35 AM
I really like the huge list o' guns.  I would understand if it got cut down, but I really like it.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Alex on March 17, 2010, 10:25:05 AM
I really like the huge list o' guns.  I would understand if it got cut down, but I really like it.

That's what the gear books are for :)
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: MilitiaJim on March 17, 2010, 10:29:05 AM
I really like the huge list o' guns.  I would understand if it got cut down, but I really like it.
That's what the gear books are for :)
I could deal with a small list of iconic weapons, but "9mm service pistol" is not an acceptable choice.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Alex on March 17, 2010, 10:53:26 AM
I really like the huge list o' guns.  I would understand if it got cut down, but I really like it.
That's what the gear books are for :)
I could deal with a small list of iconic weapons, but "9mm service pistol" is not an acceptable choice.

This has been addressed repeatedly, in multiple threads.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Morgenstern on March 17, 2010, 07:42:05 PM
Except that the Gear system in second printing SC is actually pretty easy on both the eyes and the brain, and is a better system in many ways than the Forge in FC.... (In part because it is not trying to cram 3,000 years of equipment into a single chapter....)

That's not a system issue - thats a catelog issue. Individual data points within the frame(s).

Modern play has so many more catelog issues to overcome its a wonder anyone even tries - and why many, many games don't try, either by sharply circumscribing the tools available or proposing an near future or close parallel present environment.
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: TheAuldGrump on March 17, 2010, 10:46:58 PM
I really like the huge list o' guns.  I would understand if it got cut down, but I really like it.

That's what the gear books are for :)
If it could be assumed that the Gear books would come out in a timely fashion.... You are already encountering the Too Many Typewriters problem, as the monkeys leap wildly from keyboard to keyboard, trying to recreate Shakespeare... or something. :P

Are the weapon stats similar enough, between SC 2.0 and MC/S3, that you can cut and paste most of the info? It might make the task of creating a Gunbunny book easier, if so.

Me, I can describe exactly why the Bulldog Gatling design was a superior design, and how improvements to the mount more than made up for the shorter barrel length, and why the Land pattern musket does not deserve to be saddled with the Unreliable tag in FC, but modern weapons throw me for a loop.

The Auld Grump
Title: Re: Existing Lines
Post by: Crafty_Pat on March 17, 2010, 11:24:16 PM
Quote
That's what the gear books are for :)
If it could be assumed that the Gear books would come out in a timely fashion.... You are already encountering the Too Many Typewriters problem, as the monkeys leap wildly from keyboard to keyboard, trying to recreate Shakespeare... or something. :P

That's exactly what a lot of this streamlining (of the schedule) is about - more time focused on less lines, more time focused on books rather than PDFs, and ultimately, more products getting out more regularly.

Quote
Are the weapon stats similar enough, between SC 2.0 and MC/S3, that you can cut and paste most of the info? It might make the task of creating a Gunbunny book easier, if so.

The gear needs of the games are different but there will be some overlap - particularly in G&G.